[dickiegera]

---

Is there a better way to bid this. I know there is however I am open to suggestions.

Played 8 times 1 pair was in 7♦ 1 pair in 6♦
and 3 pair in 6NT
Makes 7 ♦ any lead.
Makes 7NT on any lead except a club lead in which case NT only makes 2NT

[The_Badger]

dickiegera, on 2017-October-11, 08:16, said:

---

Is there a better way to bid this. I know there is however I am open to suggestions.

Played 8 times 1 pair was in 7♦ 1 pair in 6♦
and 3 pair in 6NT
Makes 7 ♦ any lead.
Makes 7NT on any lead except a club lead in which case NT only makes 2NT

I certainly wouldn't be bidding NT with the West hand because of the possible entry problems.

I would think a 5♦ opener would automatically set the trump suit so anything after would be controls (?) [My view on this. Whether that is standard practice please let me know.]

So 5♦ - 5♠ or 5♥ - 6♣ - 7♦

[Cyberyeti]

Once you open 5♦, it's virtually impossible to find out that you have ♦KQ and ♣A with certainty.

Our auction would not be a thing of beauty (not playing 2/1)

1♦-2♠ (GF, fit jump opening hand or rock crushing one suiter)
2N (less than Q/xx in spades)-4N (single suited type too big to bid 3N, spade suit not good enough to play in a spade slam opposite x)
5♦(minimum, lots of diamonds to play)-5♥(cue, diamonds agreed)
6♣- and now anybody's guess whether 6♦ or 7♦ gets bid.

[The_Badger]

Cyberyeti, on 2017-October-11, 08:42, said:

Once you open 5♦, it's virtually impossible to find out that you have ♦KQ and ♣A with certainty.

Just what I was thinking as an afterthought, Cyberyeti. And given that many players use a 4♦ opener as Namyats or a Texas-type hand, what does a hand with ♦QJ10xxxxxx ♣A open vulnerable?

[Tramticket]

Yes, I'm opening 1♦. East will respond 1♠ as responding 2♠ would show a very weak hand for us. West will bid 2♦ to show the minimum (HCPs) and things get murky from there - with West probably bidding 3♣ to keep things forcing. East can jump to 4♦, setting trumps and showing no interest in a 3NT contract. Then 4NT (RKCB) should get us to 7♦.

[Cyberyeti]

Tramticket, on 2017-October-11, 09:28, said:

Yes, I'm opening 1♦. East will respond 1♠ as responding 2♠ would show a very weak hand for us. West will bid 2♦ to show the minimum (HCPs) and things get murky from there - with West probably bidding 3♣ to keep things forcing. East can jump to 4♦, setting trumps and showing no interest in a 3NT contract. Then 4NT (RKCB) should get us to 7♦.

2♦, really ? I want to be in game opposite 2 bare aces or ♥AK.

[Tramticket]

Cyberyeti, on 2017-October-11, 10:36, said:

2♦, really ? I want to be in game opposite 2 bare aces or ♥AK.

You're probably right. Although 2♦ is very unlikely to end the auction and the problem with a jump to 3♦ is that it overstates your defensive strength in particular.

[Cyberyeti]

Tramticket, on 2017-October-11, 11:33, said:

You're probably right. Although 2♦ is very unlikely to end the auction and the problem with a jump to 3♦ is that it overstates your defensive strength in particular.

This is methods dependent, we play a gadget for GF hands over 1♦-1♠ so 3♦ is limited

[TylerE]

9.5 playing tricks is a 2♣ opener in my book. Might get us too high when partner is broke, but with that many sure tricks in hand it can't go THAT badly.

[Cyberyeti]

TylerE, on 2017-October-11, 12:28, said:

9.5 playing tricks is a 2♣ opener in my book. Might get us too high when partner is broke, but with that many sure tricks in hand it can't go THAT badly.

2♣ is silly.

It's 8.5 tricks not 9.5 and 1 trick defence. Also many people play 2♣-negative-3♦ GF which is not good here.

[rmnka447]

The hand is a 4 loser hand. So the hand is not quite good enough for a 2 ♣ opener IMO. So I'd open 1 ♦.

After a 1 ♠ hand response, I'd then bid 4 ♦ which sets ♦ as trump and should show a hand with 4 losers. The fact that the hand was opened 1 ♦ should tell partner that there is something outside of ♦ else the hand would be worthy of a 5 ♦ preempt immediately.

The 4 ♦ rebid leaves room for an A asking bid. With a hand with 4 1/2 cover cards opposite a presumed 4 loser hand, responder asks and when opener shows 2 keys plus the ♦ Q, 7 ♦ would seem to be an easy bid.

[Cyberyeti]

rmnka447, on 2017-October-11, 14:54, said:

The hand is a 4 loser hand. So the hand is not quite good enough for a 2 ♣ opener IMO. So I'd open 1 ♦.

After a 1 ♠ hand response, I'd then bid 4 ♦ which sets ♦ as trump and should show a hand with 4 losers. The fact that the hand was opened 1 ♦ should tell partner that there is something outside of ♦ else the hand would be worthy of a 5 ♦ preempt immediately.

The 4 ♦ rebid leaves room for an A asking bid. With a hand with 4 1/2 cover cards opposite a presumed 4 loser hand, responder asks and when opener shows 2 keys plus the ♦ Q, 7 ♦ would seem to be an easy bid.

This is fine if 4♦ means this in your system, for a number of people it will be some sort of picture bid with a spade fit.

[The_Badger]

TylerE, on 2017-October-11, 12:28, said:

9.5 playing tricks is a 2♣ opener in my book. Might get us too high when partner is broke, but with that many sure tricks in hand it can't go THAT badly.

It can go that badly. Your partner suddenly dies when you open 2♣

[rmnka447]

Cyberyeti, on 2017-October-11, 14:59, said:

This is fine if 4♦ means this in your system, for a number of people it will be some sort of picture bid with a spade fit.

Thanks Cy, you're absolutely right. That'll teach me to reply when tired after a grind'em out 28 board club duplicate session. Obviously, I was a little brain dead when replying. Yes, with most of my partners a 4 ♦ rebid would show a solid ♦ suit and a 4+ ♠ fit. With my handicapped partner, where we play a simplified version of SAYC, the auction as I outlined would apply.

For the partnerships, where 4 ♦ shows a ♠ fit, I'd just rebid 5 ♦ over 1 ♠. That should get you to at least 6 ♦ because it should show values outside of ♦. From responder's hand, it ought to be fairly simple to deduce that opener probably has ♣ A. With 9 or 10 ♦ and only some outside Qs or Js, IMO should opener just preempt 5 ♦.

[Timkin]

why not 3♦ - 4N (RKBW)
5♠ - 7N

Responder can count 2♣, 7♦, 2♥, 2♠

[nekthen]

Timkin, on 2017-October-12, 00:55, said:

why not 3♦ - 4N (RKBW)
5♠ - 7N

Responder can count 2♣, 7♦, 2♥, 2♠

Entries! As previously stated a club lead kills a NT contract

[GrahamJson]

It's 5D-6D for me. Anything other than 5D on the east hand is resulting. Yes, you miss a cold 7D, but far more often you will put oppo under pressure and get a good score that way. After a 5D opening perhaps west could bid 5H, after which east bids 6C, which must show first round control. Then maybe west could risk 7D. But it's a lot of perhapses and maybes.

2C has been mentioned as a possible opening. In my book 2C should always be based on good high cad values, not just lots of playing tricks. Give east AK in hearts instead of xx and maybe 2C is reasonable, but that's about the minimum needed.

[PhilG007]

♦

dickiegera, on 2017-October-11, 08:16, said:

---

Is there a better way to bid this. I know there is however I am open to suggestions.

Played 8 times 1 pair was in 7♦ 1 pair in 6♦
and 3 pair in 6NT
Makes 7 ♦ any lead.
Makes 7NT on any lead except a club lead in which case NT only makes 2NT

7♦ There are 9 diamond tricks,1 club
and the remaining three tricks will come from the major suit AK's. I'm critical of East's 5 diamond opener.
He seems to have forgotten that while pre-empting hinders the opponents,it also obstructs partner too.
3diamonds is the correct choice. A typical auction might be

3♦4NT( rkcb agreeing diamonds)
5 ♥(2+QD) 7♦

[Cyberyeti]

PhilG007, on 2017-October-12, 07:42, said:

7♦ There are 9 diamond tricks,1 club
and the remaining three tricks will come from the major suit AK's. I'm critical of East's 5 diamond opener.
He seems to have forgotten that while pre-empting hinders the opponents,it also obstructs partner too.
3diamonds is the correct choice. A typical auction might be

3[diamonds 4NT( rkcb agreeing diamonds)
5 ♥(2+QD) 7♦

3♦ is a ridiculous opening bid.

Give partner AKxx, Axxx, xx, xxx and play in your partscore making 6 if you wonder why.

[PhilG007]

Cyberyeti, on 2017-October-12, 07:56, said:

3♦ is a ridiculous opening bid.

Give partner AKxx, Axxx, xx, xxx and play in your partscore making 6 if you wonder why.

I am simply going by the illustrative hand. What you're proposing is hypothetical