Help
Encrypted signals are not allowed. Otherwise, any method is allowed on the first discard. Pre-announcements are not required.
Lavinthal discards and udca
#21
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 18,030
- Joined: 2006-April-17
- Gender:Male
- Location:Rochester, NY
Posted 2025-October-05, 15:42
--------------------
As for tv, screw it. You aren't missing anything. -- Ken Berg
Our ultimate goal on defense is to know by trick two or three everyone's hand at the table. -- Mike777
I have come to realise it is futile to expect or hope a regular club game will be run in accordance with the laws. -- Jillybean
As for tv, screw it. You aren't missing anything. -- Ken Berg
Our ultimate goal on defense is to know by trick two or three everyone's hand at the table. -- Mike777
I have come to realise it is futile to expect or hope a regular club game will be run in accordance with the laws. -- Jillybean
#22
- Secretary Bird
-
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 8,360
- Joined: 2003-July-12
- Gender:Male
- Location:Calgary, D18; Chapala, D16
Posted 2025-October-05, 21:53
The only carding agreement that was (emphasis: was) (pre-)Alertable [ACBL] was leading low from 2 small. It's now common enough (and like all of the last round of pre-Alerts, ignored enough) that ya gotta ask/read the card.
If they ask about carding, what you do on the first discard is 100% part of "carding", and failure to mention lavinthal(*) when prompted is misinformation. But that's not the same as prior announcement.
(*) or explain it if they look funny when the weird word is said :-).
If they ask about carding, what you do on the first discard is 100% part of "carding", and failure to mention lavinthal(*) when prompted is misinformation. But that's not the same as prior announcement.
(*) or explain it if they look funny when the weird word is said :-).
"Which is harder to find - a paranormal field agent, or someone competent who likes talking on the phone?"
"...You may return to your desk." "Thank you." -- Serena vs. Mr. Arthur, "Paranormal Helpline", EGS:NP
"...You may return to your desk." "Thank you." -- Serena vs. Mr. Arthur, "Paranormal Helpline", EGS:NP
#23
- hooked
-
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 12,371
- Joined: 2003-November-15
- Gender:Female
- Location:Vancouver, Canada
- Interests:Multi
Posted 2025-October-06, 10:17
OK, thanks. So this was another fairy tale along the lines of 15-17 nt does not need announcing. (it never is)
“It is not because things are difficult that we do not dare, it is because we do not dare that they are difficult.”
#24
- Group: Admin
- Posts: 22,057
- Joined: 2004-August-21
- Gender:Male
Posted 2025-October-08, 15:51
jillybean, on 2025-October-06, 10:17, said:
OK, thanks. So this was another fairy tale along the lines of 15-17 nt does not need announcing. (it never is)
It mostly is at the clubs and tournaments I go to. Once in a while I encounter people who don't think it's announceable, but not often.
#25
- Secretary Bird
-
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 8,360
- Joined: 2003-July-12
- Gender:Male
- Location:Calgary, D18; Chapala, D16
Posted 2025-October-09, 15:34
Many Many years ago, I mused on a forum for directors that I wish we would rule "the French Defence" to unannounced NTs explicitly legal.
I was told "I *hope* you would never do that" - which, of course, I wouldn't. But I'd love to have someone put it on their card and Alert and Explain properly - I don't think anything less than that will get the point across.
But of course, nobody would do that; it's not legal.
I do know that we rule that if there is an unAnnounced 1NT opening and you don't ask, it didn't matter to you (as opposed to "you assumed it was 15-17"). So if they do ask, even if they only ask "if it matters to them", I'm not sure I can say anything to the opponents but "well, if you had Announced as you are required to, they wouldn't have been able to do that, would they?"
But of course, nobody would do that; it's not legal.
(Note: clubs in the ACBL are allowed to use their own Alerting procedure; if they choose to (as the BBO ACBL club has) say that you don't have to Announce 15-17 but the rest of the Alert Procedure applies, then players "will be protected" if they assume 15-17. I don't think it's a good decision; but the players speak, not the directors who have to deal with people trained in those clubs).
As I am frequently one who plays a different system against weak NTs, I may have to ask. So I always do, to protect my image (except where I am told I can expect 15-17). If that annoys people, that's Not My Problem.
I was told "I *hope* you would never do that" - which, of course, I wouldn't. But I'd love to have someone put it on their card and Alert and Explain properly - I don't think anything less than that will get the point across.
But of course, nobody would do that; it's not legal.
I do know that we rule that if there is an unAnnounced 1NT opening and you don't ask, it didn't matter to you (as opposed to "you assumed it was 15-17"). So if they do ask, even if they only ask "if it matters to them", I'm not sure I can say anything to the opponents but "well, if you had Announced as you are required to, they wouldn't have been able to do that, would they?"
But of course, nobody would do that; it's not legal.
(Note: clubs in the ACBL are allowed to use their own Alerting procedure; if they choose to (as the BBO ACBL club has) say that you don't have to Announce 15-17 but the rest of the Alert Procedure applies, then players "will be protected" if they assume 15-17. I don't think it's a good decision; but the players speak, not the directors who have to deal with people trained in those clubs).
As I am frequently one who plays a different system against weak NTs, I may have to ask. So I always do, to protect my image (except where I am told I can expect 15-17). If that annoys people, that's Not My Problem.
"Which is harder to find - a paranormal field agent, or someone competent who likes talking on the phone?"
"...You may return to your desk." "Thank you." -- Serena vs. Mr. Arthur, "Paranormal Helpline", EGS:NP
"...You may return to your desk." "Thank you." -- Serena vs. Mr. Arthur, "Paranormal Helpline", EGS:NP
#26
- hooked
-
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 12,371
- Joined: 2003-November-15
- Gender:Female
- Location:Vancouver, Canada
- Interests:Multi
Posted 2025-October-09, 17:43
We had a good laugh at the table today.
My RHO opens 1nt, I wait patiently and when no announcement is forth coming.
I say "15-17" ?
LHO replies. Yes, thanks. I know.
My RHO opens 1nt, I wait patiently and when no announcement is forth coming.
I say "15-17" ?
LHO replies. Yes, thanks. I know.
“It is not because things are difficult that we do not dare, it is because we do not dare that they are difficult.”