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Bob Hamman's assertion

#121 User is offline   Trumpace 

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Posted 2005-June-02, 17:35

PriorKnowledge, on Jun 2 2005, 05:21 PM, said:

If a player has limited bridge ability, but a great memory, it seems to me that loading up on conventions will better their game more than trying to stretch their meager bridge judgement.

As Michael Caine would put it: It's not the size mate. It's how you use it.

;)
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#122 User is offline   slothy 

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Posted 2005-June-03, 08:32

trumptwo said:

As Michael Caine would put it: It's not the size mate. It's how you use it.


if i got 20 bucks for each ex-girlfriend who told me that....
gaudium est miseris socios habuisse penarum - Misery loves company.
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#123 User is offline   luke warm 

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Posted 2005-June-03, 09:56

Quote

if i got 20 bucks for each ex-girlfriend who told me that....


hence the term "EX-girlfriend"
"Paul Krugman is a stupid person's idea of what a smart person sounds like." Newt Gingrich (paraphrased)
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#124 User is offline   Double ! 

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Posted 2005-June-03, 14:16

Ouch!
That was cold!
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#125 User is offline   spwdo 

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Posted 2005-June-03, 14:33

luke warm, on Jun 3 2005, 04:56 PM, said:

Quote

if i got 20 bucks for each ex-girlfriend who told me that....


hence the term "EX-girlfriend"

nice one pal.




p.s Alex in these expensive times you wont get far with 40 bucks...
"if you fail at your first attempt , maybe skydiving is not for you".
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#126 User is offline   shoeless 

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Posted 2005-June-03, 16:48

LOL Slothy - you are so far ahead on this one you are about to lap the field.
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#127 User is offline   slothy 

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Posted 2005-June-04, 11:39

shoeless, on Jun 3 2005, 05:48 PM, said:

LOL Slothy - you are so far ahead on this one you are about to lap the field.


Dear Shoeless,

these 2 men, and may i use that noun very liberally, and i wont mention their names (Jimmy and Marc) , dont bother me in the slightest...

Lap them, lap them???? to use an Aesopian analogy, even if i were a unicycular-wheel-chair-bound tortoise (with a flat tyre), these 2 hares would be left standing.

In a swimming contest against them, even if i were to dog-paddle they would be left gurgling in my wake...

:)

PS no dogs, hares or tortoises were harmed in the making of this post.

PPS Although perhaps i shouldnt ask, is there any particular reason why you dont appear to wear shoes? I mean, if you take Jimmy and Marc for example, ever since they started wearing their partners stilettos their extra height has given them that added confidence.

Peace bruzzers :)
gaudium est miseris socios habuisse penarum - Misery loves company.
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#128 User is offline   luke warm 

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Posted 2005-June-04, 13:30

there's something to be said about that extra confidence that comes from looking ones best

aside from that, i don't think it's right of you to denigrate marc's stilettos (i'm a platform guy myself)... after all, it was you who told him how good they made his calves look.. also, he has pointedly refrained from mentioning *any* of your lacy "unmentionables"
"Paul Krugman is a stupid person's idea of what a smart person sounds like." Newt Gingrich (paraphrased)
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#129 User is offline   slothy 

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Posted 2005-June-05, 11:43

luke warm, on Jun 4 2005, 02:30 PM, said:

there's something to be said about that extra confidence that comes from looking ones best

aside from that, i don't think it's right of you to denigrate marc's stilettos (i'm a platform guy myself)... after all, it was you who told him how good they made his calves look.. also, he has pointedly refrained from mentioning *any* of your lacy "unmentionables"

Never mentioned his calves...

Only thing i said to him was i thought that the color of his shoes didnt necessarily go with the shade of blusher and lipstick he was wearing.

PS he the member of I-LACY not me :)
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#130 User is offline   Rebound 

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Posted 2005-June-05, 11:46

Jlall, on Jun 2 2005, 06:38 PM, said:

The thing is, EVERYONE can become an expert card player. It is not beyond anyone.

I think I must take exception to this statement. I have a particular knack for learning new systems, conventions, etc. But I don't think I will ever be a superior card player. Perhaps I am an exception to the rule. I presume most people who gravitate toward bridge are card players first, and bidders second. But I have no aptitude for it. I seem to have a mental block when it comes to picturing the composition of the other hands at the table (-any advice gratefully accepted.)

What meager card play skills I possess were from hard labor. My point is simply that there is a certain amount of talent involved.

This is not to say I disagree with Fred. Just the opposite, in fact. Since I feel I can play virtually any system, I now prefer to keep it simple and work even harder on judgement and card play.
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy - but it might improve my bridge.
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#131 User is offline   slothy 

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Posted 2005-June-05, 12:05

i agree Rebound. i think Justin, no disrespect J :) , (although if you DO find it disrespectful, dont say pls coz, in a moment of anguishing vulnerability, i might go through all my posts and delete them) made a rather sweeping statement.

Just like any other mental endeavour, or even physical for that matter, requiring what we conventionally label as 'intelligence' certain people will always excel more than others.

Its just like saying that i could paint a Mona Lisa!! Although, i have to say, i did paint my girlfriend, Betty, with crayon in the 3rd grade and her smile looked uncannily like a split watermelon. Got me my first kiss at least.

If we are talking about the elevated heights of professional and competitive bridge, the evaluation of 'expertness' would become more and more skewed.

I do think we ALL have the ability to become GOOD or BETTER card players, if we were to take an inordinate amount of time learning the game, but, IMHO, there comes a threshold beyond which you either got it or you aint.

i would rather say the opposite, if i were to mke any assertion at all: EVERYONE can potentially become an expert bidder. These skills are more dependent on memory and less (although needless to say judgement is OF COURSE needed) on the more nebulous qualities of judgement, deduction and table presence that underpin good card-play.

Geez i love being controversial and provocative.
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#132 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2005-June-05, 13:01

Quote

What meager card play skills I possess were from hard labor. My point is simply that there is a certain amount of talent involved.


I certainly sympathize with your point, as I grew up in a household where playing cards were "forbidden" for religious reasons; probably why I'm so screwed up, LoL, but that is another issue.

There is something to be said, I believe, for growing up and playing games like Spades or Hearts to instill some sort of "card sense". Any skills that I possess came as yours did, through diligence and study, not "natural flair".

I take comfort in what Bob Hamman said about Paul Soloway in the book "At the Table". Without quoting, he said in his early days of rubber bridge in Southern California, Soloway was so bad that the other players would make up fake phone calls for him to answer when he was to play dummy. (Doubt this is 100% true, but it makes for a good story.) But Hamman also went on to say that through hard work and dedication, Soloway made himself into one of the best dummy players in the world.

I am not up to the standards of others on this post like Roland and Justin (and others whom I have not had the pleasure to meet or know through published reports), but I can tell you from my experience that dummy play to me is about a state of mind I call "clear thinking".

For the most part, declarer play is a logic problem it seems, and as such requires a solution. It's nice later on when you understand and can operate things like squeezes and combining chances, but it all starts with "placing the cards". I saw a BOLS tip once that said: "If you ever want to amount to anything in this game, you have to build up a 'picture of the unseen hands'. " I feel silly taking up so much room on this post but I have sympathy for your plight in that I do not consider myself a "great" dummy player - I am much more comfortable on defense and in the bidding. But I turned myself into an "adequate" dummy player and on rare occasions can dazzle.

And finally (just to end all this rambling, LoL) an example of what I mean. The bidding is bad (parner's of course!) but this is how it transpired.
Me Him RHO
1D 1H
1S 2C Double
2H 2S
3D 4S

AJ93
AQ104
64
Q92

KQ84
654
AQ852
10

Club 8 led to the 2, Jack, and my 10. King of clubs follows, ruffed (a defensive error, I know). Here is what I mean by "clear thinking". LHO has led "top of nothing" so RHO has AKJxx(x) yet failed to overcall 1H - surely he does not hold either red king else he would have bid the first time. Now knowing this much, it becomes almost a double dummy problem as to how to make. Looking at losers, I see in dummy a club that I can ruff, 2 diamonds, one of which is covered by my Ace, and the 104 of hearts after the "known" finesse works. This is one loser too many. Now it is simply a matter of finding the best way to eliminate that one loser. Another way to look at this that I find at times is better than counting losers is to count winners - 4 spades in dummy, 2 club ruffs, the Ace of diamonds, and the A and Q of hearts=9. I am a trick short. Where will the extra trick come from? Hearts offers the best chance, with either the 4th heart setting up or with the KJ onside. So at trick 2 lead a small heart and finesse the 10. If this wins (as it did) you are home free, but there is still more "clear thinking" to do. Ruff another club, and cash KQ of spades (LHO shows out on the second). Finesse the Q of hearts and draw trumps. We have played 4 trumps, 3 clubs, and 2 hearts or 9 tricks. 10 tricks are assured after cashing the Ace of hearts, but what cards does LHO have left?

There is room for only 4 cards: KJ (hearts) KJ (diamonds). Now all you have to do is play the Ace of hearts and lead your last heart from dummy, pitching losing diamonds from your hand. LHO is forced to win and is on lead with KJ of dimaonds while you still hold AQ. You have gone from 6 tricks at the start of the hand (4 spades and 2 Aces) to 11 tricks at the end.

Note, there was nothing particularly "hard" or "magical" about the play of this hand, but rather a fairly simple 1-step-at-a-time logical progression to the end that I do not believe is beyond anyone's ability to duplicate.

Again, I hope this is a help and I apologize to all those truly "great" declarers out there for rambling on so long.

WinstonM
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#133 Guest_Jlall_*

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Posted 2005-June-05, 14:34

I am of the opinion no matter how inept you are with cards and how many mental blocks you have and how ADD you are anyone can still become a good card player through studying/playing. It just takes some people longer and more effort than others.
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#134 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2005-June-05, 14:44

Does anyone know if Hamman's story about Soloway was true, that in the old days of rubber bridge in L.A. area that Soloway was so poor on dummy that his pards would try to find ways to get him away from the table if he was declaring?
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
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#135 User is offline   Robertn 

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Posted 2005-June-05, 15:17

Hamman - Soloway are currently at a partnership biding table so you can check out their bidding if not Soloway's dummy play :P
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#136 User is offline   luke warm 

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Posted 2005-June-05, 15:34

well they *were* there, till alex pissed 'em off by telling soloway "hey paul, phone call"
"Paul Krugman is a stupid person's idea of what a smart person sounds like." Newt Gingrich (paraphrased)
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#137 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2005-June-05, 15:41

Quote

well they *were* there, till alex pissed 'em off by telling soloway "hey paul, phone call"


Now THAT was funny. ROFLOLOLOL.
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