[mcphee]

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Here we have a hand that took place in a team match with a BBO "expert" and advanced player partnership. E/W were silent. North began
1H 1S
3C 3S
4D 5C
5N all pass result +660 for a loss of 17 imps.

My thoughts of the bidding were that 3C was a stretch as this is not exactly what I would consider a hand to j/s. 4D was a cue bid for S of course but now clearly a massive overbid considering we have already j/s and for my money 4S would have been adequate at this point. No matter what 5N was supposed to be S simply must not pass.

The opening lead was made and the first swing was from N landing a blow to the lower body, followed with a uppercut, and I think even a kick! S regained footing and delivered a solid blow or so himself but neither player was anxious to admit fault. The reached for pistols and one player was wonded, not seriously we hope.

Lets hear what your thoughts are where and what made this accident take place. If you would also suggest a torture for the guilty party that wouold be appreciated.

Thanks

[Free]

what is 3♣???? There he totally wastes it imo. Just bid 3♥...

[Echognome]

North may have overbid slightly, but it looked as if North was begging for South to take control of this auction. Surely after the 4♦ bid, south should take control and ask for keycard.

Regardless, after the 5♣ cuebid, I am not sure why North then made a GSF bid of 5NT and then why South passed the forcing bid? Sounds like a lot of confusion going on by both sides.

[luke warm]

i think it can be difficult to bid in standard after 1H/1S/3H ... given the actual bidding, i think north is at fault... 1H/1S/3C/3S and now 4S seems obvious.. south can then go on, which he should given north's bidding and his own controls

[slothy]

Christ Mac ) and these philistines accuse me of getting carried away with metaphor and prosaic lingo )

Anyway back to biznezz....

I actually quite like the 3♣ bid especially in the context of being followed up with the 4♦ bid...

when S can see both Aces in his hand in the suits that N cue bid S MUST know that N is aflush with the top spades..... there is no other explanation for his/her strong bidding on this auction with ♠ pin-pointed.

i wouldnt say he was necessarily the shape he was but definitely telling his P that he can sniff a slam with the right cards opposite...

AND that is exactly what S has after the minor suit cues..

The 5NT is obviosly a Grand Slam Inquiry. With the cards he has there is no other bid i can see other than 7♠

[PriorKnowledge]

3C An overbid, but not by much. 3H is more in line with holding
4D Q-bid showing 3-card spade support. Maybe a simple 4S bid was better. Although opener has all side suits covered, responder may be weak so opener cannot launch into RKC yet.
5C NO. No more q-bids. Time for keycard since you have all suits covered and really need to know about opener's spade honors.
5N Not sure... Why not just 5H?

Passing 5N is a terrible, terrible error. Maybe both players were a little lost in the auction, but you can't pass 5N just because you are confused. Just bid 6S.

[luke warm]

give yourself the south hand... what do you bid after

1h : 1s
3c : 3s
4s

hasn't north done enough with the 3c bid? isn't anything other than 4s showing the same values twice?

[HeartA]

3C a little strech but OK. After South's 3S, North had to bid 4S to show S support.

After North's 4S, South could RKC with all controls on 3 suits (Aces in minors and stiff H) and extra card in S. Whether or not to go to grand is another issue.

[HeartA]

Justin,
we have different standard. Your hand does not qualify for 3C (and 4S) imo.

[luis]

My Diagsnose: "Acute Expertitis"
After 4♦ just use RKCB, 5♣, 5N and the final pass are just too dangerous in a new partnership. Being able to simplify is a good skill.

[Walddk]

Justin is spot on. 3♣ is a slight overbid (I wouldn't mind 2♣), but the North hand surely improved after the 1♠ response. 4♦ is also fine; that does not promise extras in the slightest, it merely promises a diamond control for spades.

4♠ could easily be 2524 with no diamond control. I have a feeling that South interpreted 4♦ as natural (0544 I suppose), and then the wheels came off. 4♦ is never natural. That hand would have bid 3NT over 3♠.

South had a normal 4NT over 4♦, but was perplexed by the 4♦ bid. I like North's bidding a lot and must sadly give the lady in the South seat the full blame - as much as I dislike blaming nice ladies

A 3♥ rebid by opener would have been wrong for two reasons:

1. The hand has much more potential than a mere invite after 1♠.

2. The suit quality is not good enough for a jump rebid.

Again a question of hand evaluation which no system caters for. In my opinion, the North hand is worth more than the 17 hcp you count. Judgement is what bridge is about! North judged well when he rebid 3♣, although 2♣ would have been fine too.

Having said all that, however, I would not have bid 4♦ facing an inexperienced intermediate/advanced player. I am assuming an expert partnership. With a lesser player/student I would just bid 4♠. No way that bid can be misinterpreted.

Roland

[luke warm]

i understand justin's and roland's reasoning (i think)... but consider this... imagine north had a real jumpshift (i mean, imagine the king of hearts added to the hand)... did the 3s bid improve it? yeah, obviously

on the actual hand, 3s also improved north's hand.. but improved it to what? to what the original j/s showed? if so, he's already bid that... i do agree that 4s is ambiguous, though

[reisig]

Everything has been said..except - why 3♠ over 3♣? I like giving opener a chance to explain his jump shift. Over 3♥ I can bid 3♠...over 3NT ♠s are out of the question. Who gets blamed? The first error or the last? The punishment should clearly be a firing squad

[Walddk]

luke warm, on Jun 2 2005, 11:21 AM, said:

i understand justin's and roland's reasoning (i think)... but consider this... imagine north had a real jumpshift (i mean, imagine the king of hearts added to the hand)... did the 3s bid improve it? yeah, obviously

on the actual hand, 3s also improved north's hand.. but improved it to what? to what the original j/s showed? if so, he's already bid that... i do agree that 4s is ambiguous, though

Jimmy, South can ask about all that by starting with 4NT. I am not ashamed of what I have shown so far - not after 4♦ either.

Roland

[Winstonm]

I agree completely with justin and roland that the suit quality is simply not sufficient for a 3H bid, and either 2C or 3C may work well - my instinct is to upgrade this hand from 5 losers to 4 losers after the spade approach, so I think 3C is my choice - even if we end up in a Moysian the taps are taken in the right hand opposite: Q10xx. I feel the hand is simply too slammish to bid the more practical 2C - hard to catch up from then on.

Once I've said my piece, I don't think I want to confuse the auction with any other bid than 4S. In this sequence, the diamond controls are at least inferred although not bluntly stated. With an adequate hand, partner can cue bid 5C with the Ace and diamond control issues - if partner does not hold the club Ace or diamond Ace, what does it matter?

WinstonM

[Walddk]

Winstonm, on Jun 2 2005, 11:36 AM, said:

Once I've said my piece, I don't think I want to confuse the auction with any other bid than 4S.  In this sequence, the diamond controls are at least inferred although not bluntly stated.

Your posts are usually excellent Winston, but I think you go wrong here. Over 4♠ there is no need for South to bid on with no diamond control (a different hand of course). 4♠ simply denies a diamond control for spades as I and I am sure most experts play it.

A 2524 hand with no diamond control.

AK
AK1054
76
AJ95

so South has no errand with

Q109843
K2
753
AJ

That's a shame opposite the real hand, is it not?

Roland