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Enough for a takeout double?

Poll: what do you bid? (42 member(s) have cast votes)

what do you bid?

  1. pass (10 votes [23.81%])

    Percentage of vote: 23.81%

  2. double (32 votes [76.19%])

    Percentage of vote: 76.19%

  3. other (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#1 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2005-June-05, 18:27

Scoring: IMP+BAM

N - E - S - W
1♣ -3♦ -???

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#2 User is online   mike777 

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Posted 2005-June-05, 18:39

Pass
I play any bid including Neg X as game force here.
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#3 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2005-June-05, 18:58

Altough not quite the game force Mike describes, I do play this as a "solid" limit raise type hand and this hand just isn't enough. If they make or when we can make 3H/S, you just have to chalk it up under the category of "preempts work sometimes" and go on to the next hand.

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#4 User is offline   luke warm 

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Posted 2005-June-05, 18:58

i play negative doubles thru 6S.. i'd double
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#5 Guest_Jlall_*

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Posted 2005-June-05, 19:13

I would consider a X routine. If you pass partner will almost certainly pass since you have short diamonds unless he has substantial extras. There are a TON of hands that make game good e.g. x AKxx xxx AT9xx I don't think partner would ever consider balancing but if you X he will bid 4H. This is just one of many examples. Sure you may get too high but in that case 3D is probably cold anyways.
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#6 User is online   mike777 

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Posted 2005-June-05, 19:20

Jlall, on Jun 5 2005, 08:13 PM, said:

I would consider a X routine. If you pass partner will almost certainly pass since you have short diamonds unless he has substantial extras. There are a TON of hands that make game good e.g. x AKxx xxx AT9xx I don't think partner would ever consider balancing but if you X he will bid 4H. This is just one of many examples. Sure you may get too high but in that case 3D is probably cold anyways.

TOOO tough

Wow, bidding this 18 hcp game is great, I need to x and p needs to jump to 4H. Wow.
You could even add HCP to Justin's example hand and I still missed game.
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#7 Guest_Jlall_*

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Posted 2005-June-05, 19:24

always be weary of hand construction :P I constructed a perfect minimum of course and game isn't COLD (thought great play), but he could have more HCP as you say.
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#8 User is offline   Double ! 

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Posted 2005-June-05, 19:37

assuming not playing thrump dbl's

double is OK in 13-16 NT system because P will either have 5+ clubs, 4441, or extra values.
just another example of why I dislike strong NTs
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#9 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2005-June-05, 19:49

I don't know about you, Justin, but every time I've ever doubled with this kind of hand I find this:
Must be the power of youth! LoL.


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#10 Guest_Jlall_*

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Posted 2005-June-05, 20:19

sh!t happens, I won't give up on a major suit game so easily or a partscore swing.
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#11 User is offline   Antoine Fourrière 

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Posted 2005-June-06, 00:27

Pass. But I do agree with Double! and other weak notrumpers that you should separate at once minimum unbalanced hands with 5+ clubs and minimum balanced hands, which is the greatest advantage of WJ2000 in my view.
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#12 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2005-June-06, 05:14

Double. A no-brainer for me :P
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#13 User is offline   inquiry 

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Posted 2005-June-06, 05:18

I double. Not overjoyed, but there you go. This hand in support of any suit but diamonds is really quite good. For the ZAR fans it would be 23 ZAR fit points. Partner will have at least 26, so 3H or 3S should be safe, and if he has a major and any extra, game is an excellent shot... especially if he is weak in diamonds. If partner bids 3NT I have a problem.

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Posted 2005-June-06, 05:26

Double. Uncomfortably high, but I think you need to get in, rightly or wrongly, only time will tell. When I double with a hand like this, I try to be a little optimistic and say to myself: "What if my hand had been ......

♠A983
♥Q1062
♦52
♣J64

The one I have now is much better; the singleton diamond makes all the difference. I obviously know that double can be wrong, but I think I must risk it. Again I would not have faced the same problem if I had played a weak NT. Then I would have known that partner can't have a balanced 12-14 hand.

He can now, and no fit is guaranteed. Oh well, life is tough.

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#15 User is offline   Gerben42 

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Posted 2005-June-06, 05:57

Double
Agree with the other doublers. In general if RHO preempts and you are short in the suit, you should stretch to find a bid, because partner won't be able to find one.

Conversely if you are long in their suit you should not bend over backwards to bid. Partner is still there.
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#16 User is offline   pclayton 

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Posted 2005-June-06, 07:13

Double too.

Ditto the comments of the weak NT'rs :).
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#17 User is offline   mcphee 

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Posted 2005-June-06, 07:31

Double. When short in the suit strain to act, you can have the perfectly sound neg dble every time and if you sit back and wait for it you will lose far too many game or part scores. The fact here is partern rates to be long in D and will not be able to take action.
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#18 User is offline   joker_gib 

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Posted 2005-June-06, 07:42

Double too !

As others already said, I need to help partner (even streching a little bit) who probably won't be able to balance being long in opps suit.

Alain
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#19 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2005-June-06, 07:57

With my father I play this double game forcing, so it would be a clear pass normally to me, but when this happened I wasn' playing with him so I realy had my doubts here. It might have no interest but I'll post full deal tomorow.
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#20 User is offline   mikestar 

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Posted 2005-June-06, 08:45

Double. WTP--it is correct regardless of NT range, but safer if we play weak NT.
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