[jillybean]

My apologies, this may turn into another progressive post.
It has been so long since I played "Standard" I want to go through this bidding before posting the complete hand.

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Playing "Standard"
1nt appears to be my only bid, followed by a pass?

[DavidKok]

Yes, those are the correct actions. And I think most other bidding systems will have an identical auction.

[AL78]

Correct. Prior to the last ice age Acol people would respond 2♥ but these days that hand is not quite good enough for a 2/1 response even if not playing 2/1 GF. After 2♠ you can't do anything sensible other than pass. If you had game potential partner would have bid 3♠, and if the hands look like a misfit, put the brakes on.

[LBengtsson]

AL78, on 2021-April-21, 03:07, said:

Correct. Prior to the last ice age Acol people would respond 2♥ but these days that hand is not quite good enough for a 2/1 response even if not playing 2/1 GF. After 2♠ you can't do anything sensible other than pass. If you had game potential partner would have bid 3♠, and if the hands look like a misfit, put the brakes on.

only adding. if the ops had not bid 2♣ the right bid was 'pass' also. now the ops have bid 2♣ and your ♣K looks a dead honour, so pass is non-negotiable

[mw64ahw]

Given West's ♣ bid (5+) South's 4♣s I would suspect that North is 6(32)2 or 6331.

With 7LT/8MLT 4♥ could be on if North is more than a minimum.

Worth 3♥ or even 4♥ if you don't want to mess around?

[jillybean]

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I won't leave it there, I will post the full board next.

[jillybean]

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mw64ahw you would have been a hero , after the board partner said "You have to bid your hearts (2♥/1♠), we missed a slam"

[Cyberyeti]

jillybean, on 2021-April-21, 09:57, said:

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mw64ahw you would have been a hero , after the board partner said "You have to bid your hearts (2♥/1♠), we missed a slam"

N should double rather than bidding his anaemic already known to be 6 card spade suit for a third time, I bid 4♥ over that. I would have bid 3N or 4♠ over 3♠.

[nige1]

Jillybean 'after the board partner said "You have to bid your hearts (2♥/1♠), we missed a slam"'
+++++++++++++++++

IMO, over 2♣, North should probably double rather than bid 2♠
Over 3♣, Double by North is clearer.

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[Winstonm]

nige1, on 2021-April-21, 11:34, said:

Jillybean 'after the board partner said "You have to bid your hearts (2♥/1♠), we missed a slam"'
+++++++++++++++++

IMO, over 2♣, North should probably double rather than bid 2♠
Over 3♣, Double by North is clearer.

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Agree

[jillybean]

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Now this seems like a cooperative auction. Playing 1nt forcing or not, North knows partner doesn't have spade support and double allows South to show her hand.

[mw64ahw]

jillybean, on 2021-April-21, 09:57, said:

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mw64ahw you would have been a hero , after the board partner said "You have to bid your hearts (2♥/1♠), we missed a slam"

Thanks - I enjoy your progressive posts, which get me thinking.

I only wish I could think quickly & clearly enough when playing

[mw64ahw]

South should bid 3♥ over the X with an MLT of 8. This will give North the opportunity to Q bid with his Strong <5.5 MLT hand.

The bidding would then go
3♥-4♣ (♣ control & ♥ honour)
4♥ (denies ♦ control)-4NT (3KCs w. A♠ & ♦ control)
6♥ (1KC w. Q♥)

[mycroft]

Adding to the choir: "At the 2 level, undiscussed doubles are takeout. At the 3 level, undiscussed doubles are 'Do Something Intelligent'." is a good meta-agreement to have.

Therefore, double of 3♣ is standout. I've showed my 6 spades, I have support for both reds (as much as not bidding them at the 2 level would show), partner will have the right answer (which might be pass).

[pescetom]

AL78, on 2021-April-21, 03:07, said:

Prior to the last ice age Acol people would respond 2♥

Even then?
I remember "a good 8-9" as early Acol, this is 8 but not that good even in California (to paraphrase Chico Marx).
By 1973 Terence Reese had already raised the bar to 10-12.

[mikeh]

jillybean, on 2021-April-21, 12:00, said:

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Now this seems like a cooperative auction. Playing 1nt forcing or not, North knows partner doesn't have spade support and double allows South to show her hand.

After north’s double of 2C, which isn’t exactly clear when holding 6 spades, south bid just 2H. What do you think he ought to bid with, say, xx Qxxx xxxx KJx?

Do you want, as north, to be in game opposite that?

Now, one can’t go around catering to partner having the worst possible hands, but there is NOTHING about the auction that tells opener that south has 5 good hearts.

So, why doesn’t north invite game? After all, he has game invitational values. Blasting 4H is bad bridge that works on this hand. That doesn’t make it the correct call.

As it is, south has a close decision over 2C x P. His clubs are bad for offence but his hearts are a bonus. He’s close to 3H (easily raised to game) and 2H.

West’s subsequent 3C call complicates matters, since now 3H isn’t necessarily quite as strong as it would be were it a simple raise, without the 3C call, but south was already close to inviting game anyway, so should add on the fourth heart.

[jillybean]

mikeh, on 2021-April-21, 15:22, said:

After north’s double of 2C, which isn’t exactly clear when holding 6 spades, south bid just 2H. What do you think he ought to bid with, say, xx Qxxx xxxx KJx?

Do you want, as north, to be in game opposite that?

Now, one can’t go around catering to partner having the worst possible hands, but there is NOTHING about the auction that tells opener that south has 5 good hearts.

So, why doesn’t north invite game? After all, he has game invitational values. Blasting 4H is bad bridge that works on this hand. That doesn’t make it the correct call.

As it is, south has a close decision over 2C x P. His clubs are bad for offence but his hearts are a bonus. He’s close to 3H (easily raised to game) and 2H.

West’s subsequent 3C call complicates matters, since now 3H isn’t necessarily quite as strong as it would be were it a simple raise, without the 3C call, but south was already close to inviting game anyway, so should add on the fourth heart.

I agree 100%. That was a carless, poorly thought out post.

[Tramticket]

nige1, on 2021-April-21, 11:34, said:

IMO, over 2♣, North should probably double rather than bid 2♠
Over 3♣, Double by North is clearer.

Agree.

But should South pass 3C doubled for penalties? Or bid 4H? or 3NT?

[Cyberyeti]

Tramticket, on 2021-April-21, 15:59, said:

Agree.

But should South pass 3C doubled for penalties? Or bid 4H? or 3NT?

Has basically no losing option, 3N and 4♥ are solid, 3♣x is 1100 if defended perfectly. You don't want to be in 6♥.

[LBengtsson]

why should south bid ♥s after 2♠??? this is garbage and north could have ♠AKJxxx ♥Ax ♦Qxx ♣Jx. when even 2♥ or 2♠ could be down. there are numerous other hands where south bidding ♥ will be wrong. just because one hand fits the criteria does not make it the right bid. agree that north should X instead of 2♠ on second round with 6♠3♥3♦♣1 with jillybean north hand, then get to 4♥ easy.

as for north saying south should bid ♥ after 2♠, north is wrong not south. this is worse scene resulting. there are plenty of less high point hands where north can bid 2♠ after ops 2♣. the ♠ suit is highest one so ops either have to let it play or compete to three level.