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Another one

#1 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2021-July-01, 12:49



Club game
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#2 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2021-July-01, 12:58

First off, I would bid 3h. I wouldn't endplay my pard in the bidding if he or she is holding: xxx, Qxx, AKxx, Kxx.

If I had mis-sorted and doubled, I bid 3S now to confirm the fit and suggest slam interest.

Btw, I am not trying to be flippant or critical - double here is not in my vocabulary.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter. / "I need ammunition, not a ride." Zelensky
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#3 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2021-July-01, 13:32

View PostWinstonm, on 2021-July-01, 12:58, said:

First off, I would bid 3h. I wouldn't endplay my pard in the bidding if he or she is holding: xxx, Qxx, AKxx, Kxx.

If I had mis-sorted and doubled, I bid 3S now to confirm the fit and suggest slam interest.

Btw, I am not trying to be flippant or critical - double here is not in my vocabulary.

No problem, criticism is welcome.
If you bid 3 and partner responds 4, what do you do?

edit;
I can't start with anything other than X or 3, partner may pass with a min and no support.
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#4 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2021-July-01, 16:24

View Postjillybean, on 2021-July-01, 13:32, said:

No problem, criticism is welcome.
If you bid 3 and partner responds 4, what do you do?


The first question to answer for me is: can I visualize a minimum hand consistent with partner's bidding that makes slam virtually laydown?. xxx, Qxx, AKxxx, Kx is fairly minimum and would have a high degree of success. This would mean to me the hand is worth a slam try.

The second question I have to answer is: will a rejection of my slam try get us too high? Suppose partner held: Qxx, xxx, Axxxx, KQx ?

It really gets down to partner's style, I think. With those I've played with primarily, if they opened 11 it was a really good 11 so I could move without much fear. With a partner who opens a lot of 10 and random 11 counts, and playing match points, I think I would pass because the worst sin to me is to bid a plus into a minus. But I would hate it.
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#5 User is offline   DavidKok 

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Posted 2021-July-01, 16:33

View Postjillybean, on 2021-July-01, 13:32, said:

No problem, criticism is welcome.
If you bid 3 and partner responds 4, what do you do?

For me that depends on a lot of things. Does 1 also contain balanced minima? What is the minimum hand partner could have had for 3 instead of 4?

North failed to raise spades, so it is probable that they don't have a 9-card fit. That would place partner with approximately 4=3=5=1 if 1 is unbalanced, or likely 4=3=4=2 if it need not be. In the latter case we are looking at problems in every suit. Slam is still almost cold opposite a perfect minimum (xxxx, QJx, AKxx, Kx) which traditionally means we should bid on. But partner is limited by their failure to bid 3 (some partnerships also play that 4 here confirms hearts, but I don't). If partner has some spade values slam is probably hopeless. Let's imagine KQxx, Jxx, AKxx, xx and 5 is not safe.
I think I'll pass, expecting to take 11 tricks most of the time. The odds of making 6 are probably about as good as the odds that 4 is the limit of the hand, and I don't think I can make a sensible decision over let's say 5-5.

Edit: Wait, don't you play weak NT? In that case I will brave 5.
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#6 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2021-July-01, 16:57

View PostDavidKok, on 2021-July-01, 16:33, said:

Edit: Wait, don't you play weak NT? In that case I will brave 5.

yes, 1 will be unbalanced or 15+


The auction could have gone


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#7 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2021-July-01, 17:05

Does your style require a cue bid from opener or is it a cooperative cue bid?
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter. / "I need ammunition, not a ride." Zelensky
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#8 User is offline   DavidKok 

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Posted 2021-July-01, 17:07

I'll bid 6 over 5-5. Partner knows how much they've shown, 5 shows extras.
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#9 User is offline   jillybean 

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Posted 2021-July-01, 23:15

View PostWinstonm, on 2021-July-01, 17:05, said:

Does your style require a cue bid from opener or is it a cooperative cue bid?

Partner will have first/second round control in 's, and won't have a bare minimum.

This was the full hand

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#10 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2021-July-02, 01:27

It appears N was dead, should have raised spades and given you way less space
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#11 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2021-July-02, 01:37

North apparently has little faith in the so called Law of total tricks.
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#12 User is offline   AL78 

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Posted 2021-July-02, 02:54

View PostDavidKok, on 2021-July-01, 17:07, said:

I'll bid 6 over 5-5. Partner knows how much they've shown, 5 shows extras.


Why does 5 show anything other than 1st round diamond control (if you cue 1st followed by 2nd round controls)? The cue bid hasn't taken the partnership past game (5 did that) or past the last bail out spot of 5.
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#13 User is offline   DavidKok 

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Posted 2021-July-02, 03:38

View PostAL78, on 2021-July-02, 02:54, said:

Why does 5 show anything other than 1st round diamond control (if you cue 1st followed by 2nd round controls)? The cue bid hasn't taken the partnership past game (5 did that) or past the last bail out spot of 5.
By bypassing keycards and 4 we are telling partner that controls are not the most likely issue. Therefore, at least as I play it, 5 on this auction is value-showing and asks partner for a strength-showing response in the context of the information shared so far. Partner bids 5 if the hand has become worse (presumably spade values), 5 with extras and can superaccept and show extra features with 5 and up as follows:
  • 5 - first round spade control
  • 5NT - extra values but not much extra shape, probably (semi)balanced with soft values
  • 6 - a club fragment
  • 6 - a sixth diamond (or really solid 5-card suit, impossible on this problem with our diamond holding), suggestion to play
  • 6 - slam accept without extra features, about a queen stronger than 5


Edit: it occurred to me later that we should probably bid 6 over 5, instead of 6. This shows support and is a suggestion to play (any hand with aspirations for 7 can bid 5, 5NT or 6). If partner has 2=4=5=2 or 4=3=5=1 this is probably a better spot. Now let's hope partner pulls to 6 with the actual hand, and doesn't interpret this as a try for 7...
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#14 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2021-July-02, 08:11

View Postjillybean, on 2021-July-01, 23:15, said:

Partner will have first/second round control in 's, and won't have a bare minimum.

This was the full hand


This shows to me the critical nature of trumps in slam bidding - with south bidding 3 spades, this slam is now less good but still reasonably good - but unless the 9-card fit is known the Jxxx trump support would make me reign in cooperation
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Black Lives Matter. / "I need ammunition, not a ride." Zelensky
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