[pilowsky]

Another novelty for me.
What does North have with its alerted 2♦ bid?

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[helene_t]

https://tinyurl.com/2796mld4

If North had been of flesh and blood, they may have been accused of fielding my misguided lead-directing double. Not sure if it should be a lead-directing in this auction, but that was how it was explained.

More seriously, 3NT is an overbid by about three aces.

[smerriman]

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Robots just can't get splinters right, can they?

Admittedly, this may be yet another case of the logic not matching up with the description, given 4♥ seems a reasonable bid otherwise.

[helene_t]

https://tinyurl.com/24tbmgq6

This penalty double was actually spot on (I made 5♣ but that was due to a misdefense, and 4♠ is down also). But seriously, what kind of penalty double is this? After I have supported diamonds and opps apear to have wild distributions, North can count zero defensive tricks.

My impression is that Argine actually plays "card" showing doubles in such situations, not penalty, which is fine but then it should be explained as such.

I am also curious why North bid 1♦ in the first place. If North is too weak for a splinter, maybe just make a limit raise? 1♦ is a good bid with that concentration of honours, I am just curious what the reason was for the robot to make that bid.

[pilowsky]

helene_t, on 2023-April-20, 04:33, said:

https://tinyurl.com/24tbmgq6

This penalty double was actually spot on (I made 5♣ but that was due to a misdefense, and 4♠ is down also). But seriously, what kind of penalty double is this? After I have supported diamonds and opps apear to have wild distributions, North can count zero defensive tricks.

I am also curious why North bid 1♦ in the first place. If North is too weak for a splinter, maybe just make a limit raise? 1♦ is a good bid with that concentration of honours, I am just curious what the reason was for the robot to make that bid.

Just to make it easier to see...

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[smerriman]

If at first you don't succeed..

a) Cue, cue again

---

Despite having already shown 5 spades, the first cue made some sense, I guess, if checkback is off for some reason, but I have no idea what Argine was angling for with the second.

b) NT, NT again

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A natural 4NT can't be described as anything other than a partnership-ending bid. I 'rage-quit' with 6♠, but even that didn't get the message across.

[pescetom]

smerriman, on 2023-April-21, 19:45, said:

If at first you don't succeed..

a) Cue, cue again

---

Despite having already shown 5 spades, the first cue made some sense, I guess, if checkback is off for some reason, but I have no idea what Argine was angling for with the second.

b) NT, NT again

---

A natural 4NT can't be described as anything other than a partnership-ending bid. I 'rage-quit' with 6♠, but even that didn't get the message across.

But at least he arrived at 7 HCP (even if he didn't have them, and was bashful about who had suggested a diamonds stopper).

[smerriman]

Argine is completely broken after the simple sequence 1♠ - 2♥.

I held AQTxx-Axx-xx-AJx.

2NT is 15-19 game forcing with exactly 2 hearts.
3♥ shows 11-13 with 3+♥.
4♥ shows 11-14 with 4+♥.
3NT is 15-16 with exactly 2 hearts.

2♠ shows 5+♠, 11-20, natural, forcing, so I elected to bid that hoping heart followups would show extra strength.

Nope, after Argine continued with 2NT (natural, invitational), 3♥ showed exactly 2 hearts, 11-13, while 4♥ was exactly 2 hearts, 11-20, "preference for this suit".

I tried the latter anyway, but then Argine went on its usual route of bidding 4NT / 5NT / 6NT, described as Blackwood but intended to sign off in notrumps at each level with an 11 count.

What's the normal Acol solution here?

[helene_t]

A penalty double showing 4+ in opps' suit, but in fact my partner had a singleton.
https://tinyurl.com/27mqw4da

[77stars]

diana_eva, on 2022-November-30, 04:46, said:

As the Free Acol Daylong experiment has been spawning quite a few threads, here's an official feedback thread.

Please post comments about the free acol daylong and the robots used in it (Argine).

Same as with GIB reports, it helps to include the actual hand, or at least mention the board number and the daylong date.

[pilowsky]

This sequence came up today and 2♥ was described as:
4-6♥; 5+♠; HCP 9+; 3rd suit forcing; looking for stopper, can have fit and at least 4♥ - Forcing.

---

Not being familiar with 3SF I looked it up and found a Funbridge blogpost which seemed likely to be authoritative given it's Argine.
The title of the post was "The truth about the subject of third suit forcing" suggesting that it was not a lie.

The post stated that "The next three sequences use a third suit that is outside the box that defines a third suit forcing:"
The second of these auctions is the one shown above. This is described as "Without going into detail (this is not the topic of the day), these third suits have a tendency of being natural:"

Any thoughts?

[pescetom]

pilowsky, on 2023-May-04, 23:40, said:

Not being familiar with 3SF I looked it up and found a Funbridge blogpost which seemed likely to be authoritative given it's Argine.
The title of the post was "The truth about the subject of third suit forcing" suggesting that it was not a lie.

The post stated that "The next three sequences use a third suit that is outside the box that defines a third suit forcing:"
The second of these auctions is the one shown above. This is described as "Without going into detail (this is not the topic of the day), these third suits have a tendency of being natural:"

Any thoughts?

My only thought is that this would be forcing in any natural system I have played, even without giving it a fancy name. In this particular sequence, Opener has not excluded 4 card hearts and so Responder would do well to promise the same, as Argine does here.

[smerriman]

It's definitely a 1 round force, but it's a mistake to call it 'third suit forcing'. Third suit forcing in that sequence is 2♦.

[helene_t]

https://tinyurl.com/2h6vsy2t

So the auction goes
(1♠)-p-(1NT)-p
(2♦)-x-(xx)-p
(p)-3♣-(p)-3NT
(x)-a.p.

-1100

Whether East's pass after the redouble is penalty or scrambling is a different issue (personally I think it should be penalty but East's hand is more consistent with scrambling), but it shouldn't matter here as West's 3♣ bid shouldn't show values regardless.

3♣ was explained as 8-17 points, and then E just has to pass as W will rarely have something close to 17. I am not sure why E bid 3NT.

[pilowsky]

helene_t, on 2023-May-12, 04:21, said:

just so we can see it...

---

So the auction goes
(1♠)-p-(1NT)-p
(2♦)-x-(xx)-p
(p)-3♣-(p)-3NT
(x)-a.p.

-1100

Whether East's pass after the redouble is penalty or scrambling is a different issue (personally I think it should be penalty but East's hand is more consistent with scrambling), but it shouldn't matter here as West's 3♣ bid shouldn't show values regardless.

3♣ was explained as 8-17 points, and then E just has to pass as W will rarely have something close to 17. I am not sure why E bid 3NT.

[helene_t]

1♦-(p)-1♥-(2♠)
?
Here is seems that almost everything I can bid either doesn't show extras, or shows a heart fit. For example, 3♣ is a minimum and 4♣ is a splinter.
I punted 5♦ on my mediocre diamonds for lack of a better alternative. The fact that I scores 83% for 5♦= while there were 10 top tricks in NT, shows that other had the same problem.

[thepossum]

I am confused by 5 spades to play - what's the point - 5 spades go to slam if you can do better makes sense

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[pilowsky]

Here's a hypothetical.
You're playing in a game when the bidding goes:

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What does "Hope of slam" mean?

[thepossum]

That's a different situation
It's an unnecessary raise to 5 no extra information regarding slam prospects
What's even more annoying is that were good slam prospects
We've explored a few vague controls and there is something called Blackwood at the 4 level

At least hope of slam is information but rather strange too. It isn't pointless though
I do appreciate that an unnecessary jump saying I didn't need to do this and don't recommend slam is a form of information too

[manudude03]

It looks like the bots still think they play standard blackwood. Either that or they just can't count.

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Edit: and just before anyone asks, I was south here, got moved to North to play it.