[thepossum]

How would you bid this hand

---

Note I was reading the Bridgebum and its borderline for a hand they claim to never have seen

[Stephen Tu]

With no gadgets, your only real choice here is 2c-2d-3nt, showing ~25-27.

Playing Kokish aka Birthright, you bid 2c-2d-2h!-2s!-2nt; 2H shows *either* hearts or a super-strong balanced hand, 2S is forced with most hands (can make special agreements for some special hands to refuse the puppet), then 2nt shows the 25+ balanced hand (some play 24+). (Heart hands bid something else at the 3 level according to agreements). Then partner with enough to bid or invite slam can do so with the same methods as after 2c-2d-2nt but with like a king less.

[thepossum]

It was truly sad

In other situations you would have relaxed your quant a bit

I reckon it could be worthy of a 1 point relaxation

Sometimes you have to be happy with 4+3 EDIT sorry 3+ 4 rather than 6+1

[LBengtsson]

27 HCP...26.9 K&R...27 Kleinman evaluation. Agree with Stephen Tu. 2♣ - 2♦ - 3NT showing 25-27. With Kokish you can tighten the point range slightly on the rebid.

[pescetom]

We use Kokish to define precise 2 HCP ranges:

20-21: 2NT
22-23: 2♣-2NT
24-25: Kokish-2NT
26-27: 2♣-3NT
28-29: Kokish-3NT

I think 2♣-3NT came up twice so far
But it makes sense for Opener to give precise information and let Responder make the quantitative evaluation.
And I prefer the 2 point range even at the expense of less precise bidding when 3NT does come up.

[thepossum]

Can anyone confirm or deny my feeling that it is a good 27 rather than an average or poor 27 points

EDIT A few people did. Most of us behaved. It also relates to earlier discussions about how many points you need with all Aces and a couple of Kings and a few other cards - whether 33 is too many
I appreciate it is very flat and needs something from partner

[the hog]

2C 2D2H 2S2N2NT = game forcing, flat.

[thepossum]

I do appreciate, looking at it, that it is not the best 27 pointer

I was very disciplined despite the temptation to risk being in slam

[johnu]

Stephen Tu, on 2023-March-26, 00:38, said:

With no gadgets, your only real choice here is 2c-2d-3nt, showing ~25-27.

Playing Kokish aka Birthright, you bid 2c-2d-2h!-2s!-2nt; 2H shows *either* hearts or a super-strong balanced hand, 2S is forced with most hands (can make special agreements for some special hands to refuse the puppet), then 2nt shows the 25+ balanced hand (some play 24+). (Heart hands bid something else at the 3 level according to agreements). Then partner with enough to bid or invite slam can do so with the same methods as after 2c-2d-2nt but with like a king less.

The other advantage of "Kokish" is that 2c-2d-3nt can be used to show 9 (likely) running tricks, warning partner that you aren't interested in a shaky major suit fit (in theory, you could have a running major).

[thepossum]

Here is the hand for completeness - how can you possibly find that partner has a fit like that?

Note I did think about risking 1 diamond. Who knows

---

[the hog]

thepossum, on 2023-March-26, 18:38, said:

Here is the hand for completeness - how can you possibly find that partner has a fit like that?

Note I did think about risking 1 diamond. Who knows

---

2C 2D2H 2S2N 3D3H 3N5H
Koksih was already explained in an above post.

[the hog]

duplicate post

[thepossum]

the hog, on 2023-March-26, 22:15, said:

2C 2D2H 2S2N 3D3H 3N5H
Koksih was already explained in an above post.

Unnecessary, patronising, insulting, and based on recent posts harassing Hog. Leave me alone and learn something. Whoever you are
You should know by now. All of you should. Don't be rude

I know you are one of the newbies thinking they can constantly harass and insult - some have been trying to do it and showing themselves up for many years now (going on 5 years harassment and bullying from one of my earliest posts) - ironically to the newbies the post I started being attacked over was calling out obnoxious behaviour at a table

Also I suggest you look up rhetorical in a dictionary - if you know what one is

That is a polite request to leave me alone - you and anyone else who thinks they can keep doing it

I hope you understand what a request to leave someone alone means. I would be interested in a discussion about who you are and why you and various others have such obnoxious behaviours

If I had bid the way I wanted and my gut told me I would have been in 6+ 1 - so go and try and impress an ignoramus if that is what you need to do - maybe one of your students who thinks you are smart. That just needed 4NT - not a more complicated system. Just some judgement and preparedness to take a risk and not be boring

But welcome to the bully club - I am an old timer and used to some around here - if anyone piles in and says "look at the Possum again" I will tell them the truth about the last several years on this site. I will keep doing it until you and others back off

Shall I give you a lesson on why your post was rude and insulting. Shall I. You and others who behave like you. You think I can't read for starters or listen
I think it would be a waste of my time to even try to teach you politeness and basic manners and respect to another person. But clearly you are in need of some very basic skills in that regard

One of these days I will be able to log on and look at one of my threads without some obnoxious character having ruined it

When I first learned the true definition of kibitizing I was amused - hanging around offering unnecessary and unwanted advice

I am used to being gaslighted by the world by now - but sometimes I still get upset

[the hog]

thepossum, on 2023-March-26, 22:45, said:

Unnecessary, patronising, insulting, and based on recent posts harassing Hog. Leave me alone and learn something. Whoever you are
You should know by now. All of you should. Don't be rude

I know you are one of the newbies thinking they can constantly harass and insult - some have been trying to do it and showing themselves up for many years now (going on 5 years harassment and bullying from one of my earliest posts) - ironically to the newbies the post I started being attacked over was calling out obnoxious behaviour at a table

Also I suggest you look up rhetorical in a dictionary - if you know what one is

That is a polite request to leave me alone - you and anyone else who thinks they can keep doing it

I hope you understand what a request to leave someone alone means. I would be interested in a discussion about who you are and why you and various others have such obnoxious behaviours

If I had bid the way I wanted and my gut told me I would have been in 6+ 1 - so go and try and impress an ignoramus if that is what you need to do - maybe one of your students who thinks you are smart. That just needed 4NT - not a more complicated system. Just some judgement and preparedness to take a risk and not be boring

But welcome to the bully club - I am an old timer and used to some around here - if anyone piles in and says "look at the Possum again" I will tell them the truth about the last several years on this site. I will keep doing it until you and others back off

Shall I give you a lesson on why your post was rude and insulting. Shall I. You and others who behave like you. You think I can't read for starters or listen
I think it would be a waste of my time to even try to teach you politeness and basic manners and respect to another person. But clearly you are in need of some very basic skills in that regard

One of these days I will be able to log on and look at one of my threads without some obnoxious character having ruined it

When I first learned the true definition of kibitizing I was amused - hanging around offering unnecessary and unwanted advice

I am used to being gaslighted by the world by now - but sometimes I still get upset

I suggest you learn some basic manners and appreciate it when people try to help you. As others have already done, you are now ignored.
"I know you are one of the newbies". Yes, a 16 year "newbie". roflmao.

[DavidKok]

I play 'system on' over a natural 3NT call - both here and in some contested auctions. So partner could have given a 4♦ transfer. I'm not sure that he should have though, slam seems remote and 5332 plays well in NT.

[Cyberyeti]

pescetom, on 2023-March-26, 12:08, said:

We use Kokish to define precise 2 HCP ranges:

20-21: 2NT
22-23: 2♣-2NT
24-25: Kokish-2NT
26-27: 2♣-3NT
28-29: Kokish-3NT

I think 2♣-3NT came up twice so far
But it makes sense for Opener to give precise information and let Responder make the quantitative evaluation.
And I prefer the 2 point range even at the expense of less precise bidding when 3NT does come up.

We do this too in essence, our 2N is good 19-21, rest of the ranges the same, we play transfers over 3N, we'll likely get to 6 via 4♦-4♥-4N-6♥/N.