[jillybean]

---

I have the belief in a competitive auction, that I should bid the maximum of my hand immediately.

How soon do you jump in clubs in this auction?

[Cyberyeti]

I jumped first time.

[P_Marlowe]

I would have opened with a preempt, 4C ..., but I have nothing against 3NT / 5C, even 3C.


There is a saying in German "only apes climb trees alone".
Looking only at the auction there are two players, which get adressed by this.

3H making costs 140, if nobody doubles 4C you may get out with 100, ...,

[pescetom]

I was used to having the comfort blanket of 3NT Gambling for these hands. Now that I've given that up, I guess I bid 4C here. In any case I see no sense in opening 1C in third seat.

[mikeh]

 jillybean, on 2023-April-25, 13:47, said:

---

I have the belief in a competitive auction, that I should bid the maximum of my hand immediately.

How soon do you jump in clubs in this auction?

At trick one or never. Opening at the one level means that any later jump tells partner that you have values outside of clubs, in addition to long, strong clubs. You don’t.

So don’t lie to partner. Note that partner has some values as well….see the 2D bid. He will/should therefore double them if he has no club fit and scattered values…the last thing you want.

In my main partnership I’d consider a 3C opening. We open in first seat, nv, all balanced 10 counts, all unbalanced 11 counts, and some unbalanced 10 counts, so game isn’t realistically in the picture here.

[AL78]

I would have opened 3NT, but in the absence of gambling 3NT, I would open at least 3♣.

[the hog]

Open 3NT.

[jillybean]

So this is more of a hand evaluation problem. I think I'd open 4C (G3NT not available) with this hand but it's close.
Having opened 1C I can stretch to bid 3♣/2♥ and that should be the end of my auction.

[mikeh]

I think gambling 3N in 3rd seat is a bad idea…and I used to play it, lol.

I don’t play GNT in any seat in my regular partnerships since we play versions of namyats and use 3N in first and second seat to show a 4m hand. But in third, I’d want 3N to be an offer to play. Something like Kx Axx AKQxxx Kx…though we do it with slightly weaker side suits if need be.

The GNT is pretty easy to defend against, with a number of schemes available

X is a strong notrump type of hand while 4C and 4D are major two suiters. One can play 4C as hearts are better than or equal to spades and 4D as spades are better, or 4C as a big two suiter and 4D as weaker.

Plus, as better players than me have noted, 3N should almost always be played by partner…it’s partner who, if 3N is making, has the stoppers we need

[sfi]

 jillybean, on 2023-April-25, 17:37, said:

So this is more of a hand evaluation problem. I think I'd open 4C (G3NT not available) with this hand but it's close.
Having opened 1C I can stretch to bid 3♣/2♥ and that should be the end of my auction.

That's what I thought when reading the first post. The hand is flat enough that you have to give up at some point.

[smerriman]

 jillybean, on 2023-April-25, 17:37, said:

Having opened 1C I can stretch to bid 3♣/2♥ and that should be the end of my auction.

*If* I opened 1♣, I would bid 2NT over 2♥ playing good/bad NT to show a weak hand with clubs. With or without that convention, I would interpret 3♣ as a much stronger hand than you have, so don't think I would stretch to bid it.

[Tramticket]

You could open a gambling 3NT, but your passed-hand partner is very unlikely to hold the necessary stops and it will be very revealing to your opponents when you lose the auction. The three doubletons is not a good feature and this hand is very limited.

A 3c opening in third seat is wide-ranged and on this occasion I will be top of my range.

[P_Marlowe]

 jillybean, on 2023-April-25, 17:37, said:

So this is more of a hand evaluation problem.
<snip>

Maybe, but it is also a tactical question problem.
You want to find the bid, that makes live hardest for the guy in 4th position.

If you bid 3C, sometimes you get to play it, sometimes, they make a T/O, and dont raise 3H / 3S
to 4H / 4S. If 4th has a borderline T/O, he knowes his partner is a passed hand, is he dead or
has he a max. The downside of 3C, it is lower, they can get in easier.

If you go with 4C, you hope, they get to high, you expect the auction to end in 4M, and hope,
it does not make. The downside, sometimes, they may have let you play 3C, and you may have made it,
but you are in 4C -1.

Take your pick.

Regarding "Bidding to the limit": If you take up the hand and decide you find 5C acceptable, than
you can decide to bid 3C, planning to bid 5C, if they get to 4H / 4S in a convincing manner.
The important thing is: You need to have the plan formulated in your head, when you make the 3C bid.
The displayed auction to 4H is not an auction that screams: We are confident in making 4H.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[jillybean]

I was thinking of bidding to the maximum to avoid the double.
W vs. R I may want to bid 5♣ / 2♥

We don't have gambling 3NT, Like Wii Fit, it was a popular gadget at the time but seems to fallen out of favour.

[P_Marlowe]

 jillybean, on 2023-April-26, 08:13, said:

I was thinking of bidding to the maximum to avoid the double.
W vs. R I may want to bid 5♣ / 2♥

We don't have gambling 3NT, Like Wii Fit, it was a popular gadget at the time but seems to fallen out of favour.

If you bid 5C, you can expect to get doubled, and most of the time the double will end the auction.
But this may not be bad, ..., given the 7222 it will be to expensive, but at different collors, and with a bit more
shape, 5C may be the bid, that makes it the hardest for them.

[pescetom]

 P_Marlowe, on 2023-April-26, 10:55, said:

If you bid 5C, you can expect to get doubled, and most of the time the double will end the auction.
But this may not be bad, ..., given the 7222 it will be to expensive, but at different collors, and with a bit more
shape, 5C may be the bid, that makes it the hardest for them.

As said earlier, I'm new to having a natural 4C available. But I can't imagine what hand it should show if not something like this, perhaps even less suitable to 3nt. The only argument I can see for an immediate 5C is that it is *less* likely to be doubled than 5C over 4H.

[mikeh]

In all of this discussion, nobody has yet commented on south’s bidding. What 2D showed is impossible to know without knowing if he had a weak 2D available, but in any case it should show at least a good 8 count (I’d prefer 9, especially if on a 4 card suit).

It should also deny 4 spades. As a passed hand, he shouldn’t be planning to bid 2D then show spades….

So two questions.

What kind of hand does he have for passing 4H? Passing 3H is easier to understand but we’ve shown a better hand than we have and lots of clubs yet he passes

Who has the spades?

I’d guess west has five and east three or four, but that’s just what it is, a guess. East also has 6 hearts so he may be 4=6=2=1 or such and rates to buy well in dummy.

Meanwhile, we have a lot of losers. Bidding over 3H was an error. Bidding over 5C probably just turns a bad board into a slightly worse board.

[jillybean]

---

Im South, I've lost my 2♦ to Multi, I could open 3♦

[DavidKok]

I would not mind a 3♦ opening in a multi system, but for most people this hand is not suitable. If you did not have the ace of spades it would be a clear 3♦ opening for me.

[P_Marlowe]

 DavidKok, on 2023-April-27, 03:15, said:

I would not mind a 3♦ opening in a multi system, but for most people this hand is not suitable. If you did not have the ace of spades it would be a clear 3♦ opening for me.

Given the colors and the position, I would open the given hand with 3D, without the Ace I would pass, but this comes down to
preempt style.