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Bridge game solving

#21 User is offline   jcerni 

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Posted 2023-July-22, 16:34

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West led with ♣2. North-South always get a trick, as East has a singleton in clubs, ♣3. North takes the first trick with ♣Q. In the second round, North plays the ♥8, East plays ♥5, and South plays ♥3. West takes the second trick with ♥10 (1 trick for East-West). South discarded a trick in the second round by playing ♥3. In the third round, West plays a club to have East ruff with ♥7 (2 tricks for East-West). In the fourth round, East plays ♦K, and North wins the trick with ♦A. East-West have 8 tricks so far. In the fifth round, North plays ♥6, and South takes the trick with ♥A. In the sixth round, South plays ♠5, which North takes with ♠A. In the seventh round, North plays ♥2, and South takes it with ♥K. In the eighth round, South plays ♣A. East-West no longer have any hearts. South continues with ♣K in the ninth round. In the tenth round, South plays ♠10, forcing North to play ♠2 instead of ♠K. In the eleventh round, South plays ♠J. Now, North must play ♠K. In the twelfth round, North plays ♦4, which East wins with ♦J (3 tricks for East-West). In the thirteenth round, South takes a trick with ♥9 (trumping), while East plays ♦Q. Game link: https://tinyurl.com/2p2vgnho

Question:
1. Why did South discarded a trick in the second round by playing ♥3
2. . In the tenth round, South plays ♠10, forcing North to play ♠2 instead of ♠K. Why?
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#22 User is offline   Gilithin 

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Posted 2023-July-22, 19:08

The answer to question 2 is that declarer made a mistake. If there is one single lesson to be taken away from this hand it is that declarer should not take the finesse in this sort of elimination end position. A better question though is why declarer decided to throw a winner rather than a loser on K the previous trick. I genuinely do not understand the educational value of showing this hand played in this way. Perhaps you should explain it to us beginners.
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#23 User is offline   smerriman 

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Posted 2023-July-22, 19:08

This time your description resembles the actual hand, though is still extremely hard to follow and has some mistakes in it.

Not the least that South took a very bad line of play, and the only answer I can come up with for your second question is that they did this because they were a beginner and forgot to count their tricks.

Without wanting to sound too harsh, this and the last hand sound like it was generated by AI - sounding like bridge, but without actually being bridge or showing any understanding of bridge. Part of this may be translation related, but if you're intending to teach people, these types of hand descriptions aren't the way to go - it may be better to stick with existing, pre-explained, material.
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#24 User is offline   jcerni 

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Posted 2023-July-22, 23:09

View PostGilithin, on 2023-July-22, 19:08, said:

The answer to question 2 is that declarer made a mistake. If there is one single lesson to be taken away from this hand it is that declarer should not take the finesse in this sort of elimination end position. A better question though is why declarer decided to throw a winner rather than a loser on K the previous trick. I genuinely do not understand the educational value of showing this hand played in this way. Perhaps you should explain it to us beginners.


How would you play this game to achieve the 10 tricks (game) or even more, for example, 11 tricks, etc.? The declarer made the 10 tricks as South. Her partner was artificial intelligence. She played against me, and I also had artificial intelligence as my partner. I experienced it firsthand that you can make even just 8 tricks in the same contract.
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#25 User is offline   jcerni 

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Posted 2023-July-22, 23:17

View Postsmerriman, on 2023-July-22, 19:08, said:

it may be better to stick with existing, pre-explained, material.


What do you mean? "Can you attach a specific link, please?"
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#26 User is offline   Gilithin 

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Posted 2023-July-23, 07:00

View Postjcerni, on 2023-July-22, 23:09, said:

How would you play this game to achieve the 10 tricks (game) or even more, for example, 11 tricks, etc.? The declarer made the 10 tricks as South. Her partner was artificial intelligence. She played against me, and I also had artificial intelligence as my partner. I experienced it first hand that you can make even just 8 tricks in the same contract.

You have not explained this to me/us very well so please try again.

On your new point, it is simply not possible to make fewer than 10 tricks here on any reasonable line of play. Simply playing off 2 top trumps and continuing clubs is good enough. You never take the spade finesse here unless East leads the suit, since you will be throwing the 3rd spade on the fourth club. There may well be better lines available that make 11 tricks more often or cope with a 5-0 trump break but it seems a little extreme to put extra thought towards that on a hand meant to be teaching players completely new to the game, so in such lessons I will stick with the basics of drawing trumps and playing on the suit that allows us to get rid of a potential loser. This, together with ruffing in the short hand and then drawing trumps, is the plan made on the vast majority of hands by players just starting out who have reached the ability to plan ahead.

View Postjcerni, on 2023-July-22, 23:17, said:

What do you mean? "Can you attach a specific link, please?"

There is an unbelievable amount of bridge learning material around if you look. One of the better known private example sets comes from Richard Pavlicek and can be found at his site here. New Zealand Bridge has free lesson materials that are good enough to be promoted on the websites of other countries, such as by the EBU. Also pro0moted by the EBU is the free 60 lesson course provided by the SBU. And there are many, many more. Just use Google!
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#27 User is offline   Stephen Tu 

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Posted 2023-July-23, 14:00

View PostGilithin, on 2023-July-23, 07:00, said:

On your new point, it is simply not possible to make fewer than 10 tricks here on any reasonable line of play. Simply playing off 2 top trumps and continuing clubs is good enough. You never take the spade finesse here unless East leads the suit, since you will be throwing the 3rd spade on the fourth club.

I don't think this is right on the line of 2 top trumps, if East refuses to ruff your clubs. You'll have to take the spade finesse as you don't have the transportation to ruff a spade, and giving up a diamond would let East draw your trumps. Of course if East ruffs you should not be taking spade finesse; declarer erred in discarding diamond instead of spade on the original line.
I think a more plausible line, especially when West drops an honor on the first big heart, is perhaps crossing in spades to play a heart to the 9. If East doesn't split you can make 11 easily with the spade ruff by going back to clubs and pitching a spade. If East splits you might have to settle for just drawing trumps and cashing out for ten, as you'd need spade finesse for 11 and risk going down, depending on continuations.
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#28 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2023-July-28, 15:39

View Postjcerni, on 2023-July-20, 11:58, said:

Is hand diagram tool in the editor (BBF) purposes that you there simulate instead in BBO Hand editor

It's essentially the same as the BBO Hand Editor.

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