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A way to get more people to play bridge. (After an idea by carl3.) I believe that spreading this game would also spread bbridge.

#1 User is offline   staff3 

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Posted 2023-October-09, 09:38

To make bridge more popular this 3-handed game should be spread.
(The pot is a nice touch but a protocol will also do.) Play the first
hand in NT without any payment and put the cards together in the
tricks. Note that if in a threehanded game declarer plays from the
wrong hand etc. it is the opponents' duty to correct her/him.

Deal to 4 (the cards opposite dealer belong to dummy). Starting
with the dealer the players "bid" by saying (honestly) clockwise how
many tops (=A,K,Q) they have. If you cannot bid higher than the bid
before (if any) you pass.

The highest bidder becomes declarer and the player who
does not have the lead will now show how many clubs,
diamonds, hearts and spades dummy has by putting them
(faces down) on the table. Declarer is also told dummy's
number of tops.

The sum of declarer and dummy's tops is the "topnumber".
If this is 4 or 5 you cannot play in NT and the hand is redealt
if the declaring side has no 8+ suit. (Happens approx. 1/100.)

Declarer now chooses a contract. If it is a partscore the number
of tricks contracted for must be as many as the topnumber +1 (3)
if NT (suit) is chosen. If it is a gamecontract the choice is free.
An example: If the topnumber is 8, 4 in a major is ok but not 4 in
a minor.

When the topnumber is 8+ you must play game but even if it is 7
it is often a good idea to bid 4 in a major if the suit is 8+. In spite
of the strange bidding the contracts seem to make approx. 50%
of the time.

Each of the players put 6 coins of equal value in a pot. If the
contract is a partscore (game) and makes declarer wins 2 (4)
coins from the pot. If the contract fails the defenders share
the same money. (In the last hand it may be less.)
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#2 User is offline   apollo1201 

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Posted 2023-October-10, 14:35

It looks like a simplified version of minibridge

Or actually, the stage where the students don’t know yet scoring, game bonus, competing and sacrificing.

So a good exercice to count and practice game play with a reasonable target to achieve.
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#3 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2023-October-11, 12:36

You say this is inspired by carl3's idea. It seems almost identical to it. If there are minor differences, maybe put them in the original thread https://www.bridgeba..._1#entry1057088

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Posted 2023-October-12, 08:01

The game carl3 proposes is meant to get young people interested in bridge. This is meant for a larger group. It is a good game in its own right. You can
sit right down and hand out the cards and explain as you go along. Minibridge is much less exciting and there is too much to explain. As a possible "target"
I suggest pokerplayers.(Then there would probably be bills instead of coins in the pot.) The "status" of this game right now can be summed up like this: "Those
who have played it like it and those who don't like it have not played it." Note that I have not given the game any name. I have no interest in getting famous.
My only concern is to save bridge. It may be ok on BBO still but on clublevel it is rapidely dying out.
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Posted 2023-October-12, 11:27

View Poststaff3, on 2023-October-12, 08:01, said:

The game carl3 proposes is meant to get young people interested in bridge. This is meant for a larger group. It is a good game in its own right. You can
sit right down and hand out the cards and explain as you go along. Minibridge is much less exciting and there is too much to explain. As a possible "target"
I suggest pokerplayers.(Then there would probably be bills instead of coins in the pot.) The "status" of this game right now can be summed up like this: "Those
who have played it like it and those who don't like it have not played it." Note that I have not given the game any name. I have no interest in getting famous.
My only concern is to save bridge. It may be ok on BBO still but on clublevel it is rapidely dying out.


We all want to save bridge, but saying this is "After an idea by carl3" still sounds like plagiarism to me: this IS the idea of carl3, it's same game he proposed and you could have posted your ideas about how to use it in his thread rather than creating a new one.

FWIW I am also skeptical about the need to simplify bridge to make it interesting to poker players: poker players have always taken readily to bridge (the abilities needed are not so different) even at professional level, but it just doesn't offer the same chances for raking in money.
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#6 User is offline   staff3 

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Posted 2023-October-13, 02:34

Ok the reason I did not publish the idea on carl3:s thread is that I wanted to use it as a general method to introduce bridge rather than just
for young people. There are SO MANY that have NO IDEA of what a fantastic game bridge is. But just imagine that next time you sit down to play
cards (not bridge) you try this game. I have done this many times by now but I am careful not to say the game has anything to do with bridge
till AFTERWARDS. This then comes as a total surprice. "Bridge??" they say. "But that I thought was as complicated as chess and something I
would never learn. But this was great fun."

Ok there is still bidding to be explained but it is much easier to explain that after the players at least have a reasonable idea of how to play
the cards. For them to be better at that I recommend "Bridge Master" on BB0 and soon they play on BBO as well. Some have even joined a bridgeclub.
To spread bridge this is certainly more effective than minibridge. I want to stress again that I am not doing this for my own sake but for the
sake of bridge. Several pokerplaers have also started to play this. They then use 20 SK bills instead of coins.
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#7 User is online   ASC87 

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Posted 2023-October-15, 18:49

I have been trying to raise some awareness regarding the game. I myself am a beginner but there is absolutley noone my age i know of atleast in my surroundings.

https://tribune.com....ence-and-bridge

Bridge the gap

It is crucial to address the myths surrounding the game to encourage young people in Pakistan to adopt Bridge. Here are some ways to do so:

  • Promote Bridge as a game for all ages and communities by highlighting the fun and excitement young players bring to the table. Update the game's image with modern marketing that appeals to a wider audience, using youthful language to make it more accessible and inclusive.
  • To ensure that Bridge is recognizsed as a game of skill and not gambling, it is essential to create easily understandable materials that clarify its legal status. It is recommended to enlist the help of legal experts or community leaders to explain the distinctiveness between Bridge and gambling, possibly through interviews or public service announcements. By doing so, we can promote a better understanding of Bridge and its unique characteristics.
  • Share neuroscience-backed studies that support the cognitive and social benefits of playing Bridge. Use testimonials from young players who have found that Bridge has helped them in other areas, such as academics or social interactions.
  • Emphasise how the strategies and skills used in Bridge align with cultural values such as wisdom, foresight, and community. Obtain endorsements from religious authorities stating that the game does not conflict with religious norms to counter negative perceptions.
  • Showcase men and women and people from various backgrounds who enjoy Bridge to counter gender-based stigmas. Compare Bridge to other sports that are universally accepted, highlighting its competitive and strategic aspects.
  • Promote the cost-effectiveness of Bridge, showing that it does not require expensive equipment or facilities. Emphasise that it is a game of skill that does not give advantages to individuals based on economic status.
  • To be more widely accepted, it is essential to focus on the cognitive and strategic aspects of the game rather than any betting elements. Bridge is a game of skill and strategy, not chance.

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Posted 2023-October-16, 02:10

All those suggestions are fine but as a STARTER I still suggest the "Topgame". When the players are reluctant to add money to the pot I provide it myself. Usually
in the form of 18 2 SEK pieces. When the game is over I have lost (at most) 36 SEK which is not much. It is only if I want to introduce the game to 2 NEW (reluctant)
people I am prepared to loose another 36 SEK. After the game is finished I recommend the players to go to "Bridge Master" and practice. Soon then they will (at least
in my experience) be playing real bridge.

The trouble with the "Topgame" (as I have finally decided to call it) is that regular bridgeplayers seem to be upset by a bidding where A,K and Q have equal value.
But this is the same for all the players and does not matter as much as you may think. Besides the game is just a DIRECT way to give people a rough idea of how much fun
bridge can be. There are SO MANY who don't YET know that. So if a Bridge Union somewhere would decide to send the "Topgame" to all its members I think much could be done
making bridge more popular. If this happens I will not object even if the Bridge Union said that the "Topgame" wwas their OWN idea from the start. I am doing this for
the sake of bridge and NOT for the sake of myself.
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#9 User is offline   AL78 

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Posted 2023-October-16, 04:27

View PostASC87, on 2023-October-15, 18:49, said:


  • Bridge is a game of skill and strategy, not chance.



Not true, bridge is a game of skill and chance (it is a probabilistic game), however over a large number of boards skill should dominate over chance.
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Posted 2023-October-16, 10:13

I agree with AL78. And that is what makes the game so good and worth saving. There the Topgame with coins works much better than minbridge.
Just try it!
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Posted 2023-October-16, 12:20

[Alright alright that's enough for now. Ed]
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Posted 2023-October-16, 13:26

Not quite. Note how SLOW minibridge is to put the players in an interesting situation that gives them "a taste of bridge".
In this respect the Top Game is SO MUCH BETTER than minibridge. There must be AT LEAST ONE bridgeunion that can see this point and advocate
for the Topgame (with coins) instead of minibridge. As I have stressed several times now even if the bridge union claims that the Topgame
is their OWN idea I will NOT object. I found the idea by chance and cannot really claim any right to it.
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#13 User is online   ASC87 

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Posted 2023-October-16, 14:58

View PostAL78, on 2023-October-16, 04:27, said:

Not true, bridge is a game of skill and chance (it is a probabilistic game), however over a large number of boards skill should dominate over chance.

Interesting insight. Thanks
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#14 User is offline   staff3 

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Posted 2023-October-17, 13:47

1) You play the Topgame and provide the pot. 2) Your opponents go to Bridge Master at BBO and improve their play. 3) You play them
again but now they contribute to the pot. This is a fast and fun way to get people interested in Bridge. Why don't you try it?
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#15 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2023-October-19, 13:47

View PostAL78, on 2023-October-16, 04:27, said:

Not true, bridge is a game of skill and chance (it is a probabilistic game), however over a large number of boards skill should dominate over chance.

While there's some chance in duplicate bridge, it's much lower than in most other card games. The duplicate structure means that we're all being judged on how we play the same cards. The chance aspect mostly arises due to which opponents you encounter on any particular hand, since they may play different systems/styles or have different ability levels. If an opponent hands you a gift because they misdefend, that's not usually a reflection of your skill (but sometimes you can induce a misdefense through deceptive bidding or declarer play).

But as you say, in the long run the good players tend to win because of their skill, not because of luck.

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Posted 2023-October-19, 14:24

View Postbarmar, on 2023-October-19, 13:47, said:

While there's some chance in duplicate bridge, it's much lower than in most other card games.


I can believe that. I play Canasta with a group of friends once a week and the luck element in that game dwarfs bridge.
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Posted 2023-October-19, 15:10

View Postbarmar, on 2023-October-19, 13:47, said:

While there's some chance in duplicate bridge, it's much lower than in most other card games. The duplicate structure means that we're all being judged on how we play the same cards. The chance aspect mostly arises due to which opponents you encounter on any particular hand, since they may play different systems/styles or have different ability levels. If an opponent hands you a gift because they misdefend, that's not usually a reflection of your skill (but sometimes you can induce a misdefense through deceptive bidding or declarer play).

But as you say, in the long run the good players tend to win because of their skill, not because of luck.


View PostAL78, on 2023-October-19, 14:24, said:

I can believe that. I play Canasta with a group of friends once a week and the luck element in that game dwarfs bridge.


Hmm. I play Buracco (probably the most skill-sensitive variant of Rummy) once or twice a week during the summer and while the luck element far outweighs that of duplicated bridge in a single deal or even a single tournament, I find that over a small sample of tournaments (say 3-5) the best pairs are already clearly evident, which is not the case in MP bridge. Maybe over a larger set of tournaments the best pairs in bridge will be equallly clear or even more so, but I wouldn't bet on it.

Part of that is that you will never lose at Buracco by following different strategy or tactics compared to the rest of the field, so long as you have good strategy and tactics. Just an hour ago I scored a MP bottom by taking 3NT+2 when better opps should have held me to 3NT but most others on their side committed harikiri in 4X-3. That's not just a better opponent at the wrong moment (most on my side would never have found 3NT to start with, and many on the other side would not have gifted me with two overtricks).
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Posted 2023-October-19, 23:07

The original topic for this thread have been "hijacked" but I can "follow suit" by adding that even if the chanceelement in the Topgame is of course
greater than in ordinary bridge the difference is not so great as you may think. To see this just go to BBO and imagine the Topgame played there.

Quite often the contracts are the same and sometimes even better. Yet it seems to me that bridgeplayers don't like to try the Topgame. Could it be
that it is TOO SIMPLE and somehow ridicules bridge by the absurd way to "bid"? But it IS a good game in its on right (especially with bills
instead of coins) AND a good way to circumvent ordinary bidding which is an obstacle for new players.
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#19 User is offline   pescetom 

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Posted 2023-October-20, 06:24

The original topic of this thread was *already* a hijack :)
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#20 User is offline   staff3 

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Posted 2023-October-20, 06:49

Yes but I have talked to carl3 and he does not mind that I am trying to help him. But where are those who could help bridge by trying the Topgame?
It seems to scare people. Why is that? Guess it would be different if I had been a famous player. But even a blind hen can find a good grain.
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