[mikl_plkcc]

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After I opened 1♣, partner preempted to 4♥, which showed a long suit. With my hand the only thing I needed to know to bid 6 or 7 was to know how long the suit was (I had 4 outside tricks plus partner length in the trump, and a 4-level preempt should have at least 8 in the suit), so I raised to 5 and ended up at 6.

However, my partner had 7 ♥ only, but he also had ♣KJ, so a grand was certain!

How the heck could I know such holding when my partner preempted all the bidding space away?!

[smerriman]

What was wrong with 4NT? You got very lucky 5♥ wasn't passed..

[thepossum]

Couldn't you explore slam yourself as smerriman suggests? wold you be able to ask for the King of clubs specifically. Maybe? Or maybe you would be lucky enough to be told partner had the King

However it is a bit unfortunate that all that bidding space was used up

Looking at it more though, and various bidding sequences, would you really be able to bid a grand? ask for Keys, then Queen, then Kings?

I ran it through another 2/1 bidding engine and it did not get past 6NT. Maybe too advanced for most robots

[mw64ahw]

Gosh what a coincidence. You partner sent me a binary message about not opening 2♣ with 24 total point and 9.5 playing tricks. It was a bit peeved at missing the grand!

On another note you have 2.5 modified losers, partner should have at least 7.5 for that bid.
So 19-7.5-2.5 = 9-level. Just bid the grand yourself

[mw64ahw]

smerriman, on 2025-May-29, 17:36, said:

What was wrong with 4NT? You got very lucky 5♥ wasn't passed..

4N tells you what you already know - partner isn't bidding 4♥ without 2 honours
5N after 4N gets you the K♣. What does a direct 5N say here?

[smerriman]

mw64ahw, on 2025-May-30, 00:53, said:

4N tells you what you already know - partner isn't bidding 4♥ without 2 honours
5N after 4N gets you the K♣. What does a direct 5N say here?

Precisely my point.. the OP was upset the robot "concealed" the king of clubs yet 4N was a trivial way to find it, and 5♥ was entirely pointless..

5N is GSF so no help here, and wouldn't dream of opening 2♣ with GIB. Actually gets you to 7♣ in this specific case but an auction of 2♣ - 2x - 3♣ - 6N is extremely common opposite any hand with some values.

[Huibertus]

What about:

2♣-2♥
3♣-5NT
7♣

Or something similar?

[Huibertus]

mw64ahw, on 2025-May-30, 00:53, said:

4N tells you what you already know - partner isn't bidding 4♥ without 2 honours

The point of bidding 4NT is NOT about the answer to 4NT, you couldn't care less. The point is about the subsequent 5NT King ask and the 6 ♣ answer informing you of ♣ King. It's all about planning the entire bidding sequence ahead.

[P_Marlowe]

mw64ahw, on 2025-May-30, 00:53, said:

4N tells you what you already know - partner isn't bidding 4♥ without 2 honours
5N after 4N gets you the K♣. What does a direct 5N say here?

Not quite.

It starts a RKCB seq., yes you know you have all the KCs, and p will have the Q of hearts, ...
but after getting the answer you already know, you also get to ask for placed kings, ..., p even
will tell you that he has the Queen of trumps and the king of clubs, and this is the GIB system.

[johnu]

Huibertus, on 2025-May-30, 09:06, said:

What about:

2♣-2♥
3♣-5NT
7♣

Or something similar?

How is the 2♣ opener supposed to know they need 4 first round controls to bid 7 over a grand slam force which is asking about club honors?

[johnu]

mw64ahw, on 2025-May-30, 00:53, said:

4N tells you what you already know - partner isn't bidding 4♥ without 2 honours

Really? What would North bid with KJ seventh, or 8+ hearts to the QJ?

[johnu]

mw64ahw, on 2025-May-30, 00:39, said:

On another note you have 2.5 modified losers, partner should have at least 7.5 for that bid.
So 19-7.5-2.5 = 9-level. Just bid the grand yourself

That's GIB level reasoning using losers instead of point count. Why can't there be a heart loser?

[mw64ahw]

johnu, on 2025-May-30, 13:22, said:

Really? What would North bid with KJ seventh, or 8+ hearts to the QJ?

Responder isnt really preempting their partner. They are bidding what the suit is worth expecting to make. I don't preempt partner with a measley suit and nothing else. Not sure what the BOT does, but I doubt it preempts partner in a 2nd suit

[johnu]

mw64ahw, on 2025-May-30, 15:45, said:

Responder isnt really preempting their partner. They are bidding what the suit is worth expecting to make. I don't preempt partner with a measley suit and nothing else. Not sure what the BOT does, but I doubt it preempts partner in a 2nd suit

Obviously North would have 5 or 6 cards in other suits, including enough honor cards overall to make 4♥ a reasonable contract.

[smerriman]

mw64ahw, on 2025-May-30, 15:45, said:

Responder isnt really preempting their partner. They are bidding what the suit is worth expecting to make. I don't preempt partner with a measley suit and nothing else. Not sure what the BOT does, but I doubt it preempts partner in a 2nd suit

johnu, on 2025-May-30, 17:27, said:

Obviously North would have 5 or 6 cards in other suits, including enough honor cards overall to make 4♥ a reasonable contract.

Any 8 card suit and 6 HCP is a 4♥ bid, e.g. Kx-98765432-Q-Jx.

For a 7 card suit, the ♥Q plus 6 more HCP elsewhere will do.

[mw64ahw]

smerriman, on 2025-May-30, 17:37, said:

Any 8 card suit and 6 HCP is a 4♥ bid, e.g. Kx-98765432-Q-Jx.

For a 7 card suit, the ♥Q plus 6 more HCP elsewhere will do.

Would the BOT really bid on your example hand here? This would not be a 4H bid for me; too many losers. You could lose 5 tricks off the top if leftie has your suit.

[smerriman]

Of course, we're not talking about what humans would bid..

[johnu]

mw64ahw, on 2025-May-30, 21:34, said:

Would the BOT really bid on your example hand here? This would not be a 4H bid for me; too many losers. You could lose 5 tricks off the top if leftie has your suit.

In a face to face game, I made a 2♠ jump overcall on 7 spades to the 9. Partner raised to 4♠ holding AKQx. When dummy came down, I had to ask for a review to find out who bid spades first