[benlessard]

Its a work in progress but here is the conditions so far.

<a> Nt has already been bid
<b> 3 in a suit is the last bid
<c> 3S bid would be forcing (no intent to play 3S)
<d> 3Nt would have been nf

1Nt--2H
2S---3m (GF doesnt matter that much what 3m mean)

1S-2H(gf)-2Nt-3D

1S--1Nt--3H(gf)

etc and in many more auction.

-----------------------------
1st principle.
3Nt can be passed but show doubt/medium interest in going forward.
------------------------------
2nd
3S is a puppet to 3Nt tend to be discouraging (most likely to want to play 3Nt) or strongest action.

my idea of strongest action is
RKC>control,
Void>sing,
forcing>NF,
cue agreeing partner suit>natural new suit
cue where fit is more probable>cue in less plausible fit.
clean fit>COG
fit in M>fit in m
-----------------------------------------------------
3rd direct bypassing of 3Nt are medium encouraging
-------------------------------------------------------
4th its played by both side.
-----------------------------

first example

1NT---3H (15-17 may have 5M)---31(54)/3055/maybe even 3046 with bad 6 card suit not quite slammish.
??

so with hand that have !H waste, low interest in minors/4S------------3S as a marionette to 3Nt (weakest)

hand that can try for 3Nt but have doubt or potential for minors or !S-------3Nt direct. (medium)

hands to dont want to play 3nt but are not that good you bid direct. (medium)

hands that are maximum you start with 3S first and bid later (strongest aka delayed bid).

So if you play 3H as 100% GF than you could do 4m direct invite to cuebid (or min) and delayed is rkc (or max). If 3H is not GF than direct is NF and delayed is GF. 4S direct can be 4S cards ex 44(32) min nothing in !, 4H direct is COG but delayed 4H/4S is maximum. you have direct and delayed 4NT/5m too.

Quiz...

Kxxx
AJT
AJxx
Kx

KQx
KQxxx
AJx
xx

KQx
9xxxx
AKQ
Kx

AQJx
xxxx
Ax
Axx

AQJ
AJx
xx
Axxxx

[awm]

One place a method like this might be useful is in the auction 1♠-Pass-3♥ (invitational). We'd like to distinguish between:

1. Just want to play 3NT.
2. Six spades but willing to play 3NT.
3. Big two suiter with a minor.
4. Slam try in hearts (preferably with four-level cuebids available).
5. Slam interested in spades.

My thought process was to use 3♠ = puppet to 3NT, either hand 1 or 3 or 5, with 3NT = hand 2, 4m = hand 4, and 4♥/4♠ to play.

[benlessard]

In a relay system I use it. But im going to try for standard system in many situations.My conditions

<a> NT by your side has already been bid (mostly only because i hate wrongsiding)

<b> 3♣/3♦/3♥ is the last bid (you could play it over 2Nt I guess, but 2Nt-3Nt as artificial got a bad reputation)

<c> Your forcing to at least 3Nt/4m

<d> doesn't matter if your opener or responder or its a competitive auction.

This may seems weird but i know "doubt 3NT" got a lot of value in comp auction where 3Nt is less viable than usual because of concentration of pts in opp suits and knowing a 5 card danger suit exist.



<e> Make sure opponents understand the meaning before the lead.

<f> probably not worth it after a 2NT opening

[benlessard]

1NT---(2S)----3D (♥inv+)

3H nf
3S willing to play 3NT or strong max
3Nt doesnt promise stop.
4m nat but willingness to play 5m4H instead of 3Nt even if responder got a !S stop

3S-followed by 4Y is H fit forward going for !H slam.

As you can see bidding 3NT when you dont have a stop never cost.

[nullve]

A related thread, although noone there got as far as suggesting using 3♠ as a puppet to 3N.

It's a very interesting idea, but shouldn't 3♠ in general be a marionette (or even relay) rather than a puppet?

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