[mikl_plkcc]

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Now what?
2♣ would be Michaels.
3♣ is undefined.

I bid my 5-card suit, and a misfit is unveiled.

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2♠ is forcing. What will you bid?
3♣ would be a game forcing cuebid, and asks for a ♣ stopper.

Honestly I had no idea what I should do now, and I just reverted to 3♥, which was met with a penalty double. Should I run or not?

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I had no idea so I passed, which became the final contract. Our only fit was in the opponent's suit and they had successfully found prevented us from finding it. The optimal contract on our side is 3NT= or 5♣= for +600, and the par contract is 5♣= for +600. Plan your play.

Hint: The double dummy result is 3♥x-2, but the opening lead turns it to 3♥x=.

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[mw64ahw]

If 2♠ is forcing I'd bid 2/3N given 3♣ has a different meaning. To me this denies extra ♥ length, immediate ♠ support, unbiddable ♦ and suggests ♣ values. The NT level depends on strength implied by the 2♠ bid which I would assume as 13/15+ given it is forcing?

Not sure why 2♠ is forcing after 1N and a passed hand, but I'd upgrade South's hand sitting LHO

[hrothgar]

Comment 1: A 1!C opening doesn't promise much in the way of club length. Not sure how much the conditional probabilities change if RHO opened clubs in front of you. If anything, this might be good because you're sitting over RHO's Club honors.

Comment 2: This isn't the worst vulnerable one level overcall that I've made. Its not a think of beauty, but its not completely unreasonable

Comment 3: 2!S is "forcing" is an awful treatment. LHO has an opening bid. RHO has a 1NT advance. You are a passed hand.
And you're red against white. In what world do you want to force the bidding to the three level on a no fit auction?

I can see an argument that you might want to allow allow the 2!S bidder to cater to holding a hand that really wishes that they could have open 2!S but they have some flaw that prevented them from doing so. Perhaps they have a club void or some such? This might justify a 2!S bid, though this seems infrequent and risky. (RHO is denying 3 spades. LHO has an opener...). And its not forcing.

I think that a better agreement is that 2!S is a fit non jump. Partner is showing length / honors in Spades but they also have good enough Heart support to be willing to play at the three level.

Something like

!S KQT9x
!H KJxx
!D xxx
!C x

would be perfect. It could be bid with less.

This is the treatment that I prefer.
Note that 2!S is still not "forcing".

Not sure that I would expect a brand new partnership to agree on this, however, one of my meta rules when playing in a first time partnership is "When in doubt, its fit showing"

[hrothgar]

FWIW, if my partner bid 2!S, I'd rebid 3!H

If doubled, I'd be dearly tempted to XX because I am expecting to make this

[mikeh]

Let me guess. You’re not playing bridge, you’re playing with a robot, lol.

What human being passes as north, second seat, with AJ10xxx in spades and a 10 count, including a side ace?

And who, in their right mind, thinks that 2S by a passed hand with both opps bidding is forcing?

Let me guess: GIB described 2S as forcing.

[mikl_plkcc]

Sorry, although 2♠ is normally forcing (as it is unlimited), the fact that N is a passed hand should undo the force. Is it better to pass 2♠?

Quote

What human being passes as north, second seat, with AJ10xxx in spades and a 10 count, including a side ace?

I would count North as a bare minimum 1♠ opener only because of the As and Ts, which worth about an HCP upgrade, and 2 distributional points to make up the 13 required to open.

[hrothgar]

mikl_plkcc, on 2025-April-07, 07:35, said:

Sorry, although 2♠ is normally forcing (as it is unlimited), the fact that N is a passed hand should undo the force. Is it better to pass 2♠?

That depends completely on your agreement regarding what 2!S shows.

If 2!S shows 6+ spades and denies a Heart fit then getting out low on your misfit is probably best.
If 2!S promises a heart fit, then 3!H is much better.

[mikl_plkcc]

The full deal:

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[mw64ahw]

mikeh, on 2025-April-07, 07:19, said:

Let me guess. You're not playing bridge, you're playing with a robot, lol.

What human being passes as north, second seat, with AJ10xxx in spades and a 10 count, including a side ace?

And who, in their right mind, thinks that 2S by a passed hand with both opps bidding is forcing?

Let me guess: GIB described 2S as forcing.

I'd show my 6♦ in first seat too

[helene_t]

2♠ can never be natural and forcing, regardless of whether North is a passed hand or not. North is unlikely to have the values to force to the 3-level, and if they have they can always double or bid 2nt or some number of clubs.

[smerriman]

mikeh, on 2025-April-07, 07:19, said:

Let me guess: GIB described 2S as forcing.

Whatever robot the OP is playing with, it's most definitely not GIB. The description of every single bid is nonsense.

[akwoo]

mikl_plkcc, on 2025-April-07, 07:35, said:

Sorry, although 2♠ is normally forcing (as it is unlimited), the fact that N is a passed hand should undo the force. Is it better to pass 2♠?

This is perhaps not your first priority, but you really ought to change your agreements so that 2♠ is not forcing here, even by an unpassed hand. The meta-rule should be that, if both opponents have bid, nothing is forcing except the opponents suit (and double is, in most of these situations, takeout and hence almost forcing). Unless your opponents are both psyching, there is no way partner can have the values to force given that you have no fit (and if they are psyching there are better ways to expose the psych).

[mikl_plkcc]

akwoo, on 2025-April-07, 16:45, said:

This is perhaps not your first priority, but you really ought to change your agreements so that 2♠ is not forcing here, even by an unpassed hand. The meta-rule should be that, if both opponents have bid, nothing is forcing except the opponents suit (and double is, in most of these situations, takeout and hence almost forcing). Unless your opponents are both psyching, there is no way partner can have the values to force given that you have no fit (and if they are psyching there are better ways to expose the psych).

Why is that? My meta-agreement with my regular partner is that a new suit by an unpassed hand is forcing, unless partner has limited his hand (such as by bidding 1NT, or by preempting). The reason is that a normal suit bid is a wide-range bid, and a new suit is also unlimited as well, so it must be forcing.

For example, because (1♥) - 1♠ - (/) - 2♦ is forcing, (1♥) - 1♠ - (2♣) - 2♦ and (1♥) - 1♠ - (2♥) - 3♦ must also be forcing using the same reasoning, as partner is unlimited.

There is also another treatment to play all of the above as non-forcing but it requires the use of cuebid to not promise a support, i.e. limit+ with support or GF+ without support, and there will be implication about the follow ups.

For example, if after (1♥) - 1♠ - (2♥) - 3♦ is forcing and 3♥ promises ♠ support, the overcaller can immediately start cuebidding for slam seeking purpose, or bid 4♠ direct to accept an invite again a limit raise, but if (1♥) - 1♠ - (2♥) - 3♦ is non-forcing and 3♥ is a inv+ with support or GF without support, overcaller must rebid 3♠ as a waiting bid to allow responder to further describe his hand because there may not be a ♠ fit, and it is not possible to "accept an invite" by a non-minimum overcaller.

[helene_t]

When opps bid NT, a new suit is generally not forcing. For example
1♣-(1NT)-2♠
is just to play, a hand with game interest would have doubled 1NT for penalties, or maybe bid 2NT or something.

This is because:
- opps NT bidding suggest that they have some values, not fit, and honours that are well placed for them, i.e. badly placed for us
- in the unlikely event that we do have a strong hand, dbl their NT is convenient

[mikl_plkcc]

helene_t, on 2025-April-08, 05:03, said:

When opps bid NT, a new suit is generally not forcing. For example
1♣-(1NT)-2♠
is just to play, a hand with game interest would have doubled 1NT for penalties, or maybe bid 2NT or something.

This is because:
- opps NT bidding suggest that they have some values, not fit, and honours that are well placed for them, i.e. badly placed for us
- in the unlikely event that we do have a strong hand, dbl their NT is convenient

With my regular partner, 1♣ - (1NT) - X is a penalty double, however, a strong distributional hand cannot double because it requires a balanced hand to penalty double a 1NT.

[mikl_plkcc]

helene_t, on 2025-April-08, 05:03, said:

When opps bid NT, a new suit is generally not forcing. For example
1♣-(1NT)-2♠
is just to play, a hand with game interest would have doubled 1NT for penalties, or maybe bid 2NT or something.

This is because:
- opps NT bidding suggest that they have some values, not fit, and honours that are well placed for them, i.e. badly placed for us
- in the unlikely event that we do have a strong hand, dbl their NT is convenient

With my regular partner, 1♣ - (1NT) - X is a penalty double, however, a strong distributional hand cannot double because it requires a balanced hand to penalty double a 1NT.

[hrothgar]

mikl_plkcc, on 2025-April-08, 08:25, said:

it requires a balanced hand to penalty double a 1NT.

I don't know where you are getting these rules, but

1. You might want to consider a new source of truth
2. You really want to rethink this one

FWIW, I agree that there are some types of strong hands - usually big two suiters - that don't want to be starting with a penalty double.
However, that's what bids from 2NT+ are for....