[thepossum]

Hi

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MPs, first instinct again was NT which of course scored higher by 10 points and 93% vs 43% - but allegedly 3NT denies a major fit
How can you tell etc

[akwoo]

This being the N/B forum, always bid 4♠ with 3 spades and a max.

If you're looking for a non-N/B answer - I can't look it up as I don't remember whom I lent my copy to, but I believe Woolsey's Matchpoints book has a whole chapter on this topic. It can't really be explained in a post.

[thepossum]

akwoo, on 2025-May-02, 19:50, said:

This being the N/B forum, always bid 4♠ with 3 spades and a max.

If you're looking for a non-N/B answer - I can't look it up as I don't remember whom I lent my copy to, but I believe Woolsey's Matchpoints book has a whole chapter on this topic. It can't really be explained in a post.

Thx my gut feel was NT but of course I went with 4M. Maybe the 4M is easier but not sure. It looked nice and No trumpy to me - some people failed to make the NT game so etc

[hrothgar]

thepossum, on 2025-May-02, 18:53, said:

MPs, first instinct again was NT which of course scored higher by 10 points and 93% vs 43% - but allegedly 3NT denies a major fit
How can you tell etc

This in neither here nor there, but I think you'd find strong support for treating this hand as too strong for a 15-17 HCP 1N opening

With respect to the decision to play 3N versus 4M, I lean towards 4M for a number of reasons

1. This hand is not 4-3-3-3
2. This hand has many more quick tricks (Aces and Kings) then slow tricks (Queens, Jack, and 10s that need to be developed)
3. The 5 card club suit offers more options in Spades than in NT
4. Ax in Diamonds might easily provide an extra trick in a suit contract (and could cause issues in a NT contract)

[bluenikki]

akwoo, on 2025-May-02, 19:50, said:

Woolsey's Matchpoints book has a whole chapter on this topic.

Best I can remember, Woolsey analyzed 4-4 fits, not 5-3.

[Cyberyeti]

So partner has exactly 5 spades, no other 5 card suit and say an 8 count (If you invite with 9 then it might be interesting to look at that separately). You might want to exclude hands with 5♠/4♥ if you would bid those differently.

This is reasonably easy to drop into one of the dealing programs and you will have your answer.

[mike777]

I didn't think partner asked for your opinion.

[thepossum]

Partner invited in either game - and should have 9 HCPs

[thepossum]

Here is the hand on future analysis the top score with 3NT+ 1 was lucky - tricked by the traveller - and they did not get the diamond lead
My question abut how you tell remains valid because I liked the look of my hand

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[mike777]

thepossum, on 2025-May-03, 16:37, said:

Partner invited in either game

When I first started playing, I thought my partners, who were much much better than me were asking for my opinion on these auctions if I was bidding game.


They were not asking me for my opinion.
They were asking a factual question.

If I have three trumps and accepting bid them.

I can't speak to what the robots were thinking. Smile.

[thepossum]

mike777, on 2025-May-03, 19:07, said:

When I first started playing, I thought my partners, who were much much better than me where asking for my opinion on these auctions if I was bidding game.


They were not asking me for my opinion.
They were asking a factual question.

If I have three trumps and accepting bid them.

I can't speak to what the robots were thinking. Smile.

Invite to either game but 3NT would deny 3 spades despte a chance of a top

5 clubs a couple of hearts a few spades and the Ace of diamonds if lucky

[Cyberyeti]

3N is right 50% of the time. Swap the K and J of diamonds and 3N doesn't make, swap the spade honours around and 4♠ doesn't make.

Judging whether you should be in 3N or 4♠ based on this hand is the wrong thing to do.

[AL78]

 Cyberyeti, on 2025-May-04, 01:57, said:

3N is right 50% of the time. Swap the K and J of diamonds and 3N doesn't make, swap the spade honours around and 4♠ doesn't make.

Judging whether you should be in 3N or 4♠ based on this hand is the wrong thing to do.

MPs encourages this sort of thing. I've had bottoms in the past because opponents have bid 3NT with a (known) nine card major fit and it happened to make the same number of tricks as the major game, even when neither held a 4333 shape. One reason I prefer IMPS scoring.

[Cyberyeti]

 AL78, on 2025-May-04, 03:11, said:

MPs encourages this sort of thing. I've had bottoms in the past because opponents have bid 3NT with a (known) nine card major fit and it happened to make the same number of tricks as the major game, even when neither held a 4333 shape. One reason I prefer IMPS scoring.

I've been on both ends of this many times. Also prefer IMPs