[jillybean]

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What's your plan?

[DavidKok]

Spoiler

1♣ followed by 2♠. I don't like rebidding 2♠ but I think it's standard.

[mw64ahw]

2♣ 9 playing tricks - 2♦ (playing birthright)
3♣ 5+ or 4414

Otherwise this is a 1♦ opening playing my Esoteric Unbalanced ♦ bidding 1♠ 3/4♠ unlimited after 1♥ weak either/both Majors. If partner raises, 2N asks for further shape/strength otherwise 3N

[P_Marlowe]

DavidKok, on 2025-November-10, 05:25, said:

Spoiler

1♣ followed by 2♠. I don't like rebidding 2♠ but I think it's standard.

I agree, this would be the start of my action.

[Huibertus]

Open 1♣ next round 2♠ if partner doesn't support ♣ first round. We're going to game unless partner passes first round.

If partner bids 1♠ or bids 2♣ inverted, we're going to investigate slam.

This is not a 2♣ opening, nowhere near.

[mw64ahw]

P_Marlowe, on 2025-November-10, 05:57, said:

I agree, this would be the start of my action.

Except that 1♣-1♠-2♠ is an underbid

[mw64ahw]

Huibertus, on 2025-November-10, 07:00, said:

This is not a 2♣ opening, nowhere near.

Not that far off:
9 playing tricks
4 losers
4.5 mod. losers
7 controls
5 quick tricks
The only downside for me is 22 rather than 23 total points

[jillybean]

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That's not how my auction went

[mike777]

 jillybean, on 2025-November-10, 07:35, said:

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That's not how my auction went

3D, will pass 3Nt, or will bid 3Nt over 3H.

[jillybean]

2♠ is preferable to 2nt because it describes the hand, sort of, keeps a club slam in the picture, and 2nt is a tad underbid?
I'd like to be 64 65

[DavidKok]

We do not hold a balanced hand. I do not bid NT.
The risk is that partner will drive to hearts holding (say) a 6-card suit. On this deal this is very unlikely by partner's failure to bid 1♣-2♥ weak, but you never know.

I play Lebensohl over 2♠, but in this forum especially I will not assume that we do. I think 3NT over 3♣ is good. We've described our hand - game forcing opposite a response with 5(+)♣, 4♠ and the diamonds stopped. Probably it plays better from partner's side, but oh well.

[jillybean]

So the lines for a NT opening have been blurred, allowing 4135 but not for the rebid?

[mikeh]

The start of 1C then 2S is pretty standard for 2/1 or standard bidders. Obviously, if one require ps 6+ hcp to respond, one could easily miss game after opening 1C and seeing partner pass. Few experts these days pass 1C bless they have a truly terrible hand. No, they don’t play 1C as forcing, but to old fashioned players it may seem almost as if they do. The variant of T-Walsh that uses 1C 1R 1N as 18-19 (or 17-19 if 1N is 14-16) greatly facilitates very light opening bids since the 18-19 balanced hand is far more common than the distributional powerhouse we have here…standard bidders are driven to at least 2N once responder bids and thus can be horrible if responder has 3 or 4 hcp. We get to play 1N or a suit at the 2 level.

And over the jump shift or a reverse we play ingberman/lebensohl to again give us some chance of portraying responder’s weakness.

[P_Marlowe]

mw64ahw, on 2025-November-10, 07:06, said:

Except that 1♣-1♠-2♠ is an underbid

Obv. if I find a spade fit, I make a heart splinter.

[P_Marlowe]

jillybean, on 2025-November-10, 07:55, said:

2♠ is preferable to 2nt because it describes the hand, sort of, keeps a club slam in the picture, and 2nt is a tad underbid?
I'd like to be 64 65

Given the way the auction develops

#1 p being a passed hand
#2 p first bids a suit we have shortage

I would not worry to much about slam, but it may well be, that 3NT goes down, when 5C / 6C is making.

[Flem72]

1C-1red-1S = forcing one round

[DavidKok]

jillybean, on 2025-November-10, 08:28, said:

So the lines for a NT opening have been blurred, allowing 4135 but not for the rebid?

I think this is missing the point of why experts open 1NT more frequently these days. That being said I am also not a fan of the semibalanced NT bids, whether openings or rebids.
In my arrogant opinion, I think a big part of why including more hands in NT is popular at the club level is that people are so bad at bidding minor-oriented hands that they may as well bid NT, since at least they know that part of their system.

[Cyberyeti]

Flem72, on 2025-November-10, 09:16, said:

1C-1red-1S = forcing one round

We play it "forcing if you had a response", I may want to be in game even if they didn't, not sure if I'd bid 1♠ or force to game

[jillybean]

DavidKok, on 2025-November-10, 09:50, said:

I think this is missing the point of why experts open 1NT more frequently these days. That being said I am also not a fan of the semibalanced NT bids, whether openings or rebids.
In my arrogant opinion, I think a big part of why including more hands in NT is popular at the club level is that people are so bad at bidding minor-oriented hands that they may as well bid NT, since at least they know that part of their system.

You could be totally correct! Why do experts open 1NT more frequently?
I see this hand as the smallest fib, I don't like 2♠, 2nt isn't perfect.

Have we said enough, ready for the full hand?

[Huibertus]

jillybean, on 2025-November-10, 07:35, said:

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That's not how my auction went

Well, as said previous round, worth another bid to make it a game force. So, 3♦ now. Will pass 3NT. Difficult choice if partner bids 3♠, but I'd choose the ♣ game rather then the ♠ game as I don't have two losers to park on the ♥ leads, planning to keep control of trumps with dummy able to ruff the 4th round, and I feel ruffing the 2nd/3rd ♥ round in my hand is too risky.