[paulsim]

Hi all

Is playable/advisable double with major fit trying to show more values?

---

a.- 3♥ shows a kind of a good and constructive raise like ~8-10?

b.- Double first, and delayed support would be a posibility to show something more values? or maybe a very bad idea?

Thanks all
Kind Regards

Paul_S

[smerriman]

If I have support, I want to show it as soon as possible - what are you planning to do if LHO raises spades, as they often do?

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

The main problem is, that if you hide the support and they make a blocking 4S
bid, how do you tell p, after you hid 4S, that his values in your fit suit are
worthless, ... if he has AK in a 6 card suit, he may count this as 2 tricks,
but 3-1 is more likely than 2-2.

A common solution is to play 2NT in this kind of situation as Lebensohl style,
the name is Good-Bad 2NT, but it is a Lebensohl variation.

If weaker variations go through 2NT, a direct 3H would be constructive or the other
way round. The main issue again is, one or the other fit raise gets shown delayed.
But if you only wanted to compete only to the 3 level this may not be the end of
the world, with a more constructive hand, you have shown your hand.

There are other solutions, xfer responses, ... I have yet to looked at DavidKoks
thread, but xfer responses are another way to help you, and they dont suffer from
hiding a raise (depending on the used schema).

With kind regards
Marlowe

[DavidKok]

I think it is common here for 2NT to be a stronger heart raise than 3♥.

[mike777]

 paulsim, on 2025-November-20, 14:39, said:

Hi all

Is playable/advisable double with major fit trying to show more values?

---

a.- 3♥ shows a kind of a good and constructive raise like ~8-10?

b.- Double first, and delayed support would be a posibility to show something more values? or maybe a very bad idea?

Thanks all
Kind Regards

Paul_S

2NT is probably the more modern expert style

Old fashion style
3h= roughly 8-11 support
4H= roughly 12-13 support
3S = roughly 14+ support

[P_Marlowe]

mike777, on 2025-November-20, 17:23, said:

2NT is probably the more modern expert style

Old fashion style
3h= roughly 8-11 support
4H= roughly 12-13 support
3S = roughly 14+ support

Without add. talk, I would assumed, that

4H showes a hand, that think 4H will have some play, 4+ trump support, maximal inv. values.
It would also include hands, that would have made a preemptive 4H raise without interference.
3S showes a fit, sets up a forcing pass seq.
3H showes all the other hands, i.e. simple raises from 6/7 ... inv. hands with only 3 card
support.

The introduction of an artificial 2NT or the usage of xfer responses tries to provide you two
different routes to 3H, to enable opener to better judge, if the partnership should try 4H
with the intention to make.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[helene_t]

smerriman, on 2025-November-20, 14:46, said:

If I have support, I want to show it as soon as possible - what are you planning to do if LHO raises spades, as they often do?

I generally agree with this. With a singleton spade or with better hearts I would certainly support. With this particular hand it is just barely possible that 6♦ is the right contract, and I am sorta OK with doubling 4♠ without having shown heart support. I am also fine with bidding 4♥ on my second turn if I get the chance.

Since I am on lead myself it is not an issue that I don't particularly want a heart lead, it is also not much of an issue for the defense against 4♠ that partner won't expect three hearts - if p gets to cash two heart tricks they will have my count anyway so that doesn't matter either.

My first thought was that I would raise with his hand but would have doubled if you make one of the small diamonds the ace so that slam is more likely. But then again, slam exploration becomes a lot easier if we show a GF with hearts immediately, and if 6m makes it is very likely tha 6♥ also makes.

Consider, for example

1♥-(2♠)-x-(3♠)
4m*

Is this 4m bid even forcing? I think so but I wouldn't be sure.

So at the end of the day I agree, it is best to support hearts regardless of strength.