[MinorKid]

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While we have invented minor in the available in the first place, pard showed a bare minimum of his promised balanced 12 count.
alternatively 4♦ by me or him would be mkcb

[DavidKok]

Preempts work. This is why I don't use this 3NT bid, and don't use 4♦ as yet another ace asking gadget.

[mikeh]

3N could be on a 12 count? Seems low to me, but maybe you need a good hand to open.

As for 5D, you’re looking at all of the keycards so partner isn’t feeling slam positive very often, while even grand may have play. KJx Qxx Qxxx KQx looks like a 5D bid to me. Give him the diamond Jack as well and grand is almost cold.

As with David, I don’t like 4D minorwood. Kickback is superior in that it leaves 4D for other hands where cuebidding is most important.

I’m not stopping short of slam. Just in case he’s 3=3=3=4 (unlikely though that may be), I’ll bid 5N, pick a slam. If we don’t play that, I’ll bid 6D, giving up on the grand. I think a 6C try should deliver all the side aces (if you had no major control, how can you bid beyond 5D) but I think this hand is too weak even though grand may be excellent.

[mw64ahw]

Sounds like a 3334

[DavidKok]

mikeh, on 2026-February-01, 02:10, said:

As with David, I don’t like 4D minorwood. Kickback is superior [...]

Sorry, I think both are poor agreements. I would much rather play neither.

mikeh, on 2026-February-01, 02:10, said:

I’m not stopping short of slam. Just in case he’s 3=3=3=4 (unlikely though that may be), [...]

If I played 3NT as a strong hand, it would always show exactly 3=3=3=4. All other patterns have easy cheap responses (1M, 2♣ 5+, or 2♦ 4+).

I agree with your other points, but also we're guessing at the 6-level in a poor system. It's going to lose sometimes. Too bad.

[Cyberyeti]

3N for me is always 3334 to 1♦, 5♦ says my clubs are really bad, the question is are there enough discards on his majors to make 6♦ when clubs are not 2-2.

KQx, KQx, QJx, xxxx may not look appetising but is sufficient.

[jillybean]

Exactly what the title says, there's the ghastly 3nt bid again. I am looking forward to seeing Norths hand.

[pescetom]

I would respond 2NT with a 12 HCP 3=3=3=4, 2♣ GF with 13+.
Over 2♣ it's easy to find slam. If Opener rebids 3♣ then now 4♣ fixes clubs and invites control-bid, 4♦ fixes clubs and is RKCB. You can have your Kickback cake and eat it. But in practice we almost always prefer to control-bid.

[MinorKid]

In case yre wondering north hand was
K9 Q97 QJ94 KJT7

[Cyberyeti]

MinorKid, on 2026-February-03, 19:33, said:

In case yre wondering north hand was
K9 Q97 QJ94 KJT7

1♦-2♦ (inv+ may contain 4M)
3♣(nat, not necessarily extras no major)-3♦ (NF)
3♥(stop/cue GF)-3N
4♣(3♥ was cue, not clear if this is 5CS or cue)-4♦
4♥(KB)-4♠(0/3)
4N(Q♦?)-5♣ (yes and K♣)
6♣(can you control the 3rd round of clubs)-6♦ no

I don't particularly mind being in the grand here, but we would not be in it

[mw64ahw]

Alternatively just bid a slam given the mod. loser counts. I often do that with partner's who take the quick route.

[Cyberyeti]

mw64ahw, on 2026-February-04, 05:21, said:

Alternatively just bid a slam given the mod. loser counts. I often do that with partner's who take the quick route.

Slam can be terrible, how do you propose to make it opposite KQx, KJx, QJxx, xxx, if playing that 3N can be only 3334 it's more sensible, as a 2-2 club break gets you there most of the time

[mike777]

Cyberyeti, on 2026-February-04, 08:44, said:

Slam can be terrible, how do you propose to make it opposite KQx, KJx, QJxx, xxx, if playing that 3N can be only 3334 it's more sensible, as a 2-2 club break gets you there most of the time

"Alternatively just bid a slam given the mod. loser counts. I often do that with partner's who take the quick route."

If the priority is counting losers, that looks closer to a one no trump response than three no trump. smile

[Cyberyeti]

mike777, on 2026-February-04, 08:59, said:

"Alternatively just bid a slam given the mod. loser counts. I often do that with partner's who take the quick route."

If the priority is counting losers, that looks closer to a one no trump response than three no trump. smile

It's a 12 count, and there are no single honours without backup, apart from ♣10 arguably as good as the actual hand, possibly better for NT purposes as you won't have ♠Qx/Kx

[mw64ahw]

Cyberyeti, on 2026-February-04, 09:53, said:

It's a 12 count, and there are no single honours without backup, apart from ♣10 arguably as good as the actual hand, possibly better for NT purposes as you won't have ♠Qx/Kx

You need to trust that your partner doesn't raise to 3N on rubbish

[Cyberyeti]

mw64ahw, on 2026-February-04, 10:59, said:

You need to trust that your partner doesn't raise to 3N on rubbish

Well OP's partner does

[MinorKid]

How worse in term of losing trick count in responder's hand?
(mikeh) KJx Qxx Qxxx KQx = 1.5+3+2(Trump)+1 = 7.5

(Actual N) Kx Qxx QJxx KJTx = 1.5+3+2+1.5 = 8

(Cyberyeti) KQx KQx QJx xxxx = 1 + 1 + 2 + 3 = 7

(Worst hand1) QJx QJx QJx QJxx = 2 + 2 + 2 + 2 = 8
(Worst hand2) QJx KQJ QJx xxxx = 2 + 1 + 2 + 3 = 8
(Best hand1) Kxx xxx QJx KQJx = 1.5 + 3 + 2 + 1 = 7.5

Which give an avarage of 7.5 LTC. Since a opening hand typically has 7 LTC and 3NT response has slightly little i'll give 8 LTC


Since opener has
A7 A AKxxx Axxxx = 1 + 0 + 1 + 2 = 4
The level we will be playing is estimated to be = 18 - (4 + 8) = 6