[steve2005]

finally get a hand where Gerber applies and Ben screws it up
responded 4♦ 0 or 4 aces as i have 1 that means 0
but it had 3 aces. if it shows 3 aces i bid 7N
My link

[pescetom]

From a Ben point of view, I seem to remember this bug was already documented here.
Seeing as Lorserker has miraculously resuscitated, maybe he could confirm

From a bridge point of view, I think Gerber was (yet again) inappropriate.
You know there are 32-34 points on the line and you have 6 running diamonds.
6NT looks almost inevitable and does not depend upon number of Aces (barring the freak of opps holding 2 Aces and no other honour, even then they have to find both).
But 7♦ also looks likely and well worth investigating.

[steve2005]

I thought i saw that all bids above 3NT are not defined. If so hard to bid slams scientifically.

[johnu]

pescetom, on 2026-June-10, 14:25, said:

From a bridge point of view, I think Gerber was (yet again) inappropriate.
You know there are 32-34 points on the line and you have 6 running diamonds.
6NT looks almost inevitable and does not depend upon number of Aces (barring the freak of opps holding 2 Aces and no other honour, even then they have to find both).
But 7♦ also looks likely and well worth investigating.

Why is Gerber inappropriate when there is a chance you are missing 2 aces, especially playing with Ben? OK, one reason would be that Ben makes random responses to Gerber. BTW, sometimes you won't have 12 tricks even if the opponents don't cash their 2 aces.

[thepossum]

Is this AI? Near enough is good enough

[pescetom]

johnu, on 2026-June-10, 17:37, said:

Why is Gerber inappropriate when there is a chance you are missing 2 aces

We've been through this before, here is what I wrote at the time

Quote

#
# Does it make sense to check if we are missing 2 cashing tricks?
#

produce 1000

Nmin=15
Nmax=17
Smin=17
Smax=17

Open1NT = shape(north, any 4333 + any 4423 + any 5332) and hcp(north)>=Nmin and hcp(north)<=Nmax
Raiseto6NT = shape(south, any 4333 + any 4423) and hcp(south)>=Smin and hcp(south)<=Smax

EtopS = top2(east,spades)
EtopH = top2(east,hearts)
EtopD = top2(east,diamonds)
EtopC = top2(east,clubs)
WtopS = top2(west,spades)
WtopH = top2(west,hearts)
WtopD = top2(west,diamonds)
WtopC = top2(west,clubs)
EWaces = aces(east) + aces(west)
NSaces = aces(north) + aces(south)
EWkings = kings(east) + kings(west)
EWhcp = hcp(east) + hcp(west)

OffAKany = ((EWaces == 1) and (EWkings == 1))
OffAKsame = (EtopS + WtopS == 2) or (EtopH + WtopH == 2) or (EtopD + WtopD == 2) or (EtopC + WtopC == 2)

action frequency "EW hcp" (EWhcp,0,9), frequency "EW Aces" (EWaces,0,4), frequency "EW have an A and a K" (OffAKany,0,1), frequency "EW have AK in same suit" (OffAKsame,0,1)


condition Open1NT and Raiseto6NT

#### for debug or skeptics, uncomment and reduce Produce to a small number
#action printes (" EtopS: ", EtopS, " EtopH: ", EtopH," EtopC: ", EtopC," EtopD: ", EtopD," WtopS: ", WtopS," WtopH: ", WtopH," WtopC: ", WtopC," WtopD: ", WtopD, " OffAKsame:", OffAKsame, " NSaces:", NSaces, " EWaces:", EWaces, \n), printew

[johnu]

pescetom, on 2026-June-13, 14:30, said:

We've been through this before, here is what I wrote at the time

Also, in real life, many players will upgrade very good 14 counts to 1NT. So there are a lot more hands where 2 aces are missing. But why not ask for aces if that is part of your system, even if missing 2 aces doesn't happen often?

As far as making 6NT missing 2 aces, half the time one opponent will have both aces. I estimate the chances of 6NT going down as 100%. When aces are split, sometimes you can't ever make 12 tricks without losing 2 aces first. Or the defense may just get lucky and cash both aces, or make informed guesses.

[pescetom]

 johnu, on 2026-June-13, 16:02, said:

Also, in real life, many players will upgrade very good 14 counts to 1NT. So there are a lot more hands where 2 aces are missing. But why not ask for aces if that is part of your system, even if missing 2 aces doesn't happen often?

If you and your partner are both unemotional and highly concentrated all the way through a competition then it's a possible tiny marginal gain, agreed. In my experience many people in real life get excited by Ace asking (and/or confused between Blackwood and Gerber replies) and screw up more frequently than they would like to admit, certainly more often than being off two Aces. There is also the small risk of a successful lead directing double.