[cencio]

What is the meaning of a 5 nt in reply to 4 nt?

[Cyberyeti]

cencio, on 2026-July-15, 04:23, said:

What is the meaning of a 5 nt in reply to 4 nt?

Do you mean 4N opener, or quantitative or Blackwood, answers differ

[cencio]

The auction was 1h- 4nt by me(blackwood) for play heart -5nt (?)-6h (by eye)

[pescetom]

 cencio, on 2026-July-15, 06:25, said:

The auction was 1h- 4nt by me(blackwood) for play heart -5nt (?)-6h (by eye)

If you mean that 4NT was RKCB in hearts (which is one primitive agreement possible) then 5NT would usually show an undisclosed void and an even number of keycards.

[cencio]

pescetom, on 2026-July-15, 06:32, said:

If you mean that 4NT was RKCB in hearts (which is one primitive agreement possible) then 5NT would usually show an undisclosed void and an even number of keycards.

effectively...That was the hand. Never seen before

[Cyberyeti]

Many people play straight (4 ace) blackwood on the first bid over 1♥ to cover cases like x, x, AKQJ10xxxx, AK where I don't care about ♥K, and bid something else first if they want to KC

[cencio]

cencio, on 2026-July-15, 06:50, said:

effectively...That was the hand. Never seen before

the hand

---

[Cyberyeti]

4NT is a horrible bid with a void

Did you make it ?

[pescetom]

That hand fits, even keycards and a void. With odd keycards North would have replied 6♣.

South was foolish to keycard without describing his clubs and with a void of his own.

You can see a slightly more reasonable example in the "Better than the soccer" thread.

[cencio]

Cyberyeti, on 2026-July-16, 01:49, said:

4NT is a horrible bid with a void

Did you make it ?

No ☹️

[paulg]

pescetom, on 2026-July-15, 06:32, said:

If you mean that 4NT was RKCB in hearts (which is one primitive agreement possible) then 5NT would usually show an undisclosed void and an even number of keycards.

cencio, on 2026-July-15, 06:50, said:

effectively...That was the hand. Never seen before

I think this really belongs in the advanced or expert forum.

My local club is full of intermediate players with a couple of players who were advanced in their heyday. I would be happy if they knew the continuations after RKCB (they don't) before they worried about void-showing responses, to which only some adv+ tournament players will have discussed with their regular partners.

In short, just within the topic of RKCB, there are more important areas to discuss.

[Cyberyeti]

paulg, on 2026-July-16, 08:17, said:

I think this really belongs in the advanced or expert forum.

My local club is full of intermediate players with a couple of players who were advanced in their heyday. I would be happy if they knew the continuations after RKCB (they don't) before they worried about void-showing responses, to which only some adv+ tournament players will have discussed with their regular partners.

In short, just within the topic of RKCB, there are more important areas to discuss.

We actually don't play the standard responses with voids.

Most important question to ask is whether (spades trumps), 4N-5♣-5♦ is 5♥ or 5♠ denying the Q

[mike777]

I would definitely take 4NT as simple basic blackwood, how many aces.
5NT = 4
5C=0

Add my one ace and the KQ of hearts
Equals easy seven heart bid.

[paulg]

mike777, on 2026-July-16, 11:32, said:

I would definitely take 4NT as simple basic blackwood, how many aces.
5NT = 4
5C=0

Add my one ace and the KQ of hearts
Equals easy seven heart bid.

In my simple, basic blackwood the 5NT response does not exist as I was taught that 5♣ is 0 or 4 aces.

As I said, there are simpler things to worry about

[mike777]

 paulg, on 2026-July-16, 11:41, said:

In my simple, basic blackwood the 5NT response does not exist as I was taught that 5♣ is 0 or 4 aces.

As I said, there are simpler things to worry about

Well it existed with this partner,as well as 5 aces in our deck of cards, 5NT has to mean something, smile.


A much bigger concern is that our beginning declarer may have a panic attack trying to make seven or even six hearts and never come back to our club to be seen again. It happens...

How do we show the joy and excitement of bidding and making a slam and not make the beginning player feel that surgical staples are being removed from their skull.
.

[apollo1201]

 paulg, on 2026-July-16, 11:41, said:

In my simple, basic blackwood the 5NT response does not exist as I was taught that 5♣ is 0 or 4 aces.

How often does opener have 4 aces when partner launched BW just after the opening? Sth like KQJ x 4 plus a small card?

[pescetom]

paulg, on 2026-July-16, 11:41, said:

In my simple, basic blackwood the 5NT response does not exist as I was taught that 5♣ is 0 or 4 aces.

As I said, there are simpler things to worry about

I am a curious soul and learn mainly by searching internet (something increasingly difficult unless you are willing to accept pre-digested AI) and formulating my own conclusions.
These void showing responses to RKCB are documented and clear, although some like @thepossum find it repugnant that they effectively force to slam.
I'm not a fan of RKCB facing a hand that might be unbalanced in the first place, but if you must/will bid that way then they make sense IMHO.
What nobody documents are the follow-ups: I would expect cheapest step asking for void and next step asking for trumps Q with Specific King, although I would prefer the opposite.

[DavidKok]

I play different continuations, asking for extras in context. The suit is presumed to be clear from the auction, and I no longer have room to ask for the queen of trumps specifically (but it can be part of deciding what to answer to an 'extras' ask).

[mike777]

Again I really do believe 1x=4NT
Always is basic ace asking, no keycard
Why?

There are plenty of ways to set trumps.
X=suit

[paulg]

Just to reinforce my view that this should be in the expert forum ...

Adam Kaplan (current World Champion) and Owen Lien (pro) just had this auction in the round of 16 of the Spingold:

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4NT was undiscussed and it was quantative to East and RKCB to West. West declined to show his void, presumably as he did not think he had extras.

Fortunately this made on a spade lead when the clubs broke and the diamond finesse worked. Declarer can make it on a non-spade lead with good guessing.

But if world-class players, who look like they'll be in the Spingold quarter-final tomorrow, struggle with 'simple' auctions ... I think most people will cope without void-showing responses.