[Fluffy]

bid_em_up, on Mar 8 2007, 02:29 PM, said:

Wouldn't you also bid 2H on x KQxxxx Axx xxx?

no way, maybe 3♥ once in a while

[whereagles]

bid_em_up, on Mar 8 2007, 02:29 PM, said:

Wouldn't you also bid 2H on x KQxxxx Axx xxx?

yes. maybe 3♥ once in a while

[the hog]

♠ A10x
♥ AJ10
D Kxxx
♣ xxx

Surely this is a non problem. If overcaller bids 3H, which he should, this hand has a clear 4H raise over a vulnerable 2H overcall. 5 controls!
If it passed partner's 3H bid this is very poor hand evaluation.

[bid_em_up]

The_Hog, on Mar 9 2007, 06:00 PM, said:

♠  A10x 
♥  AJ10 
D  Kxxx 
♣  xxx 

Surely this is a non problem. If overcaller bids 3H, which he should, this hand has a clear 4H raise over a vulnerable 2H overcall. 5 controls!
If it passed partner's 3H bid this is very poor hand evaluation.

b.s.

How much weaker do you think the cuebidding hand can be? It should never be weaker than this, without compensating shortness somewhere, imo. On the 3-3-4-3 pattern, with the opening bidder over it, this hand is nowhere near as good as you are attempting to imply that it is. This, assumes of course, that a raise to 3H is invitational (as it should be) and not preemptive. The cuebid at this point should say, I can almost bid 4H on my own, unless you have a real bad overcall. If all partner can do is bid 3H, I am going to trust him and pass.

Bidding 4H is even worse hand evaluation, imo. Not to mention a break in partnership discipline. I do not know Free's overcall style. I suspect that it is nowhere near as disciplined as mine would be for a w/r overcall (but thats just a guess). But to bid 4H after being told that his overcall isn't that good is simply playing one handed. Maybe you like that, but I dont.

[the hog]

bid_em_up, on Mar 10 2007, 06:14 AM, said:

The_Hog, on Mar 9 2007, 06:00 PM, said:

♠  A10x 
♥  AJ10 
D  Kxxx 
♣  xxx 

Surely this is a non problem. If overcaller bids 3H, which he should, this hand has a clear 4H raise over a vulnerable 2H overcall. 5 controls!
If it passed partner's 3H bid this is very poor hand evaluation.

b.s.

How much weaker do you think the cuebidding hand can be? It should never be weaker than this, without compensating shortness somewhere, imo. On the 3-3-4-3 pattern, with the opening bidder over it, this hand is nowhere near as good as you are attempting to imply that it is. This, assumes of course, that a raise to 3H is invitational (as it should be) and not preemptive. The cuebid at this point should say, I can almost bid 4H on my own, unless you have a real bad overcall. If all partner can do is bid 3H, I am going to trust him and pass.

Bidding 4H is even worse hand evaluation, imo. Not to mention a break in partnership discipline. I do not know Free's overcall style. I suspect that it is nowhere near as disciplined as mine would be for a w/r overcall (but thats just a guess). But to bid 4H after being told that his overcall isn't that good is simply playing one handed. Maybe you like that, but I dont.

"You clearly have as much idea of what you are talking about as the man in the moon." Quote Papa the Greek.
The reason for going via the 2S bid is to show that the raise is made on high card strength and not length to allow pd to make a sensible decision if the opps decide to sacrifice. 2S shows a limit raise or better and this hand is far too good to pass 3H. Note that even without the "wasted" K of S 3NT makes on the 4-3 C break. Vul overcall or nv overcall, this hand is worth 4H.

"Maybe you bid like that, but I dont."

Maybe you will after playing for a few more years; don't give up yet.

[cherdano]

bid_em_up, on Mar 9 2007, 05:14 PM, said:

The_Hog, on Mar 9 2007, 06:00 PM, said:

♠  A10x 
♥  AJ10 
D  Kxxx 
♣  xxx 

Surely this is a non problem. If overcaller bids 3H, which he should, this hand has a clear 4H raise over a vulnerable 2H overcall. 5 controls!
If it passed partner's 3H bid this is very poor hand evaluation.

b.s.

How much weaker do you think the cuebidding hand can be? It should never be weaker than this, without compensating shortness somewhere, imo. On the 3-3-4-3 pattern, with the opening bidder over it, this hand is nowhere near as good as you are attempting to imply that it is. This, assumes of course, that a raise to 3H is invitational (as it should be) and not preemptive. The cuebid at this point should say, I can almost bid 4H on my own, unless you have a real bad overcall. If all partner can do is bid 3H, I am going to trust him and pass.

Bidding 4H is even worse hand evaluation, imo. Not to mention a break in partnership discipline. I do not know Free's overcall style. I suspect that it is nowhere near as disciplined as mine would be for a w/r overcall (but thats just a guess). But to bid 4H after being told that his overcall isn't that good is simply playing one handed. Maybe you like that, but I dont.

I don't know anyone who plays the raise to 3H as invitational. It is constructive, but partner needs substantial extras to bid 4.

I agree that this A A K hand is a game force opposite 2H.

[bid_em_up]

The_Hog, on Mar 9 2007, 07:49 PM, said:

bid_em_up, on Mar 10 2007, 06:14 AM, said:

The_Hog, on Mar 9 2007, 06:00 PM, said:

♠  A10x 
♥  AJ10 
D  Kxxx 
♣  xxx 

Surely this is a non problem. If overcaller bids 3H, which he should, this hand has a clear 4H raise over a vulnerable 2H overcall. 5 controls!
If it passed partner's 3H bid this is very poor hand evaluation.

b.s.

How much weaker do you think the cuebidding hand can be? It should never be weaker than this, without compensating shortness somewhere, imo. On the 3-3-4-3 pattern, with the opening bidder over it, this hand is nowhere near as good as you are attempting to imply that it is. This, assumes of course, that a raise to 3H is invitational (as it should be) and not preemptive. The cuebid at this point should say, I can almost bid 4H on my own, unless you have a real bad overcall. If all partner can do is bid 3H, I am going to trust him and pass.

Bidding 4H is even worse hand evaluation, imo. Not to mention a break in partnership discipline. I do not know Free's overcall style. I suspect that it is nowhere near as disciplined as mine would be for a w/r overcall (but thats just a guess). But to bid 4H after being told that his overcall isn't that good is simply playing one handed. Maybe you like that, but I dont.

"You clearly have as much idea of what you are talking about as the man in the moon." Quote Papa the Greek.
The reason for going via the 2S bid is to show that the raise is made on high card strength and not length to allow pd to make a sensible decision if the opps decide to sacrifice. 2S shows a limit raise or better and this hand is far too good to pass 3H. Note that even without the "wasted" K of S 3NT makes on the 4-3 C break. Vul overcall or nv overcall, this hand is worth 4H.

"Maybe you bid like that, but I dont."

Maybe you will after playing for a few more years; don't give up yet.

Ho Hum.