[Cascade]

Gerben42, on Jun 24 2007, 01:02 AM, said:

Why is no one bidding TWO ♠? Its either that or pass... Bidding 4♠ now stops you from finding 6 of something.

I usually play negative free bids so 2♠ is not forcing.

But this hand offers good play for 4♠ opposite some sub-minimum openings e.g.

Kx
xxx
AKxxx
xxx

My experience is that hands with two significant features - here seven spades and four-card support for partner - are difficult to bid accurately.

I'm an optimist so I am going to bid the most likely game.

[jdeegan]

4♠ seems clear with 10xxx in ♦. Slam is too remote. You need the 'perfect' 19 HCP - nothing wasted in ♣.

"Never buy gold on the end of the world" - anon.

"Never try for slam if you need the 'magic' hand" - the world's greatest bridge player

[han]

2S really shows a different hand than this in my opinion. 3S as fit jump is gross. So what's the alternative to 4S, pass?

4S can win in several ways, as it can make or make them misguess. Partner will not expect a much stronger hand than this as we would have bid 2S.

[cherdano]

Hannie, on Jun 23 2007, 03:33 PM, said:

2S really shows a different hand than this in my opinion. 3S as fit jump is gross. So what's the alternative to 4S, pass?

I suppose the 3S bidders were assuming a WJS. Nobody except (name deleted) suggested 3S if it's a fit jump. 3S WJS is just an underbid, not gross I would say

Gerben42, on Jun 23 2007, 07:02 AM, said:

Why is no one bidding TWO ♠? Its either that or pass... Bidding 4♠ now stops you from finding 6 of something.

Bidding 2♠ forcing now will enable you to find many 6-something down one.

[jdonn]

Hannie, on Jun 23 2007, 04:33 PM, said:

2S really shows a different hand than this in my opinion. 3S as fit jump is gross. So what's the alternative to 4S, pass?

4S can win in several ways, as it can make or make them misguess. Partner will not expect a much stronger hand than this as we would have bid 2S.

I agree with this. I don't like 4♠ that much, but I dislike the other choices even more so that's what is left.

[mike777]

Cascade, on Jun 23 2007, 04:15 PM, said:

Gerben42, on Jun 24 2007, 01:02 AM, said:

Why is no one bidding TWO ♠? Its either that or pass... Bidding 4♠ now stops you from finding 6 of something.

I usually play negative free bids so 2♠ is not forcing.

But this hand offers good play for 4♠ opposite some sub-minimum openings e.g.

Kx
xxx
AKxxx
xxx

My experience is that hands with two significant features - here seven spades and four-card support for partner - are difficult to bid accurately.

I'm an optimist so I am going to bid the most likely game.

I would be very surprised to buy the hand in 4spades if you are my opp. with something like this. I will stay with 3S.

4s seems to be another example of trying to steal the hand and not bid ours?

What do you guys think 3spades shows?

[Cascade]

mike777, on Jun 24 2007, 11:46 AM, said:

Cascade, on Jun 23 2007, 04:15 PM, said:

Gerben42, on Jun 24 2007, 01:02 AM, said:

Why is no one bidding TWO ♠? Its either that or pass... Bidding 4♠ now stops you from finding 6 of something.

I usually play negative free bids so 2♠ is not forcing.

But this hand offers good play for 4♠ opposite some sub-minimum openings e.g.

Kx
xxx
AKxxx
xxx

My experience is that hands with two significant features - here seven spades and four-card support for partner - are difficult to bid accurately.

I'm an optimist so I am going to bid the most likely game.

I would be very surprised to buy the hand in 4spades if you are my opp. with something like this. I will stay with 3S.

4s seems to be another example of trying to steal the hand and not bid ours?

What do you guys think 3spades shows?

Its not this hand that is the real problem.

It is similar hands with something wasted in clubs where partner still doesnt have a raise over a non-forcing spade bid that are the real problems.

[pbleighton]

Quote

I would be very surprised to buy the hand in 4spades if you are my opp. with something like this. I will stay with 3S.

4s seems to be another example of trying to steal the hand and not bid ours?

What do you guys think 3spades shows?

Mike, every once in a while I completely agree with one of your posts.

I'm not sure how this happens

Peter

[han]

mike777, on Jun 23 2007, 06:46 PM, said:

What do you guys think 3spades shows?

I know what I play it as, I don't know how you play it. However, if you play it as weak then I'm pretty sure that partner won't expect to have a shot at game with the hand that Cascade gave.

[kenrexford]

I just do not get this.

2♠ is obviously wrong, unless you play "really negative" free bids that can be "really offensively interesting" anyway.

3♠ as a fit-jump is way off by most definitions of a fit-jump.

4♠ looks neat but could be a complete disaster and also is a mis-description.

Can't anyone other than me simply pass with this freak 5-count? You have boss trumps. On the rare occasion where this thing passes out, you can't make 4♠ anyway. More often, some razzle-dazzle happens and you come back with an October surprise that will really sound to partner like a sickly swan. Is that so bad? Are y'all so afraid of being the one with the first five-level decision that you will make all wild jumps to 4♠ show just about anything, leaving your partner with a likely five-level decision anyway?

If you would rather bid an immediate 4♠ or something else, just because of this freak hand, are you not creating psychotic episodes for partner in trying to deal with your general insanity and lack of discipline (Vegas I-->V)?

If you sneak down to the "safer" 3♠, how does partner know what the heck to do when you might have this mess or a more sane KQxxx in spades, Qxxx in diamonds, and out?

If you drop down to the brilliant 2♠ idea apparently tried in Vegas, how in the world does partner field this, other than a WAG and an interested post the following week?

[foo]

kenrexford, on Jun 23 2007, 07:55 AM, said:

For those who are bidding 3♠ as a fit-showing jump, what is your definition of the right hand for that call? Is it simply a fit, plus a bunch of this suit I'm now bidding? Is it showing a concentration of values, whatever values you may or may not have? Is it focusing the second suit as the necessary fit (swan here) or the first and the probable? Is the call used for slam auctions, competitive, and preemptive all at the same time? Are there any minimum honor contribution expectations?

For those bidding 4♠, is this bid also undefined? Is there some theory that somehow the opposition decision after 4♠ will never possibly lead to partner having his own 5-level decision (see Justin's similar problem from earlier -- Vegas)?

"When you don't have a perfect bid for a hand, make the bid that tells the least lie."
♠ QJxxxxx ♥ Qx ♦ 109xx ♣
1♦-(2♣)-?

There is no "right" bid with this hand. There is only the least evil.

This auction is most likely about to turn =very= competitive. I'm expecting a 4♣ or 5♣ call next by Advancer no matter what I do.

There is a very high chance We have a 2x =9 card= fit in the Pointeds.
My ODR =sucks= for defending.
If We are going to defeat 5♣, pd has to have the defensive tricks in hand. I can provide no help.

3♠ WJS does not tell pd what is going on, but if that's the best bid I have systemically, that's the one;

...and WJS is better than 4♠ IMHO because I do not have the controls to make 4♠ a "two way shot" in the parlance of Robson & Segal. (although I admit it's close)
IMHO 4♠ here with this hand is going to get Whacked 80% of the time when it should be by competent opponents.

3♠ FJS is much closer to being right since it "gets my hand off my chest" in one bid. Also, if playing FJS and I make this bid instead of 4♠, pd knows I do not have the 2 way shot.

[mike777]

Hannie, on Jun 24 2007, 09:13 AM, said:

mike777, on Jun 23 2007, 06:46 PM, said:

What do you guys think 3spades shows?

I know what I play it as, I don't know how you play it. However, if you play it as weak then I'm pretty sure that partner won't expect to have a shot at game with the hand that Cascade gave.

As I said if partner has the Cascade hand I do not expect to buy the hand. The opp will simply out bid us to the game we push them to.