[Walddk]

Monday was a very frustrating day as far as our broadcast from the European Open Championships in Antalya was concerned. The problems started at 10:00 local time and it all ended prematurely around 18:10.

I lost count, but my estimate is that we had at least 60 disconnects. Eventually, after 44 of the scheduled 56 boards our operators had to give up. Very annoying of course because we had a great match in progress: Mahaffey v Zia in the Round of 16.

At this moment we don't know what caused the problems, but we do know that it was a local problem. Perhaps the hotel server, maybe the EBL server, conceivably something else. The IT manager at the hotel is still working on it, and hopefully he will resolve the problems before our broadcast tomorrow.

It was not a BBO problem; the Turkish organisers were helpless, and so were our hard working operators of course. Believe me when I say that it was much more frustrating for them than it was for us. I don't know how many of you realise how demanding it is to catch up when you are thrown out every 30 seconds.

The operators never lost their heads; they did all they could to get this going. It was far from perfect in the true sense of the word, but it was commendable under the circumstances, and we should all thank them for their efforts!

As long as we have the internet, we do not have a guarantee of a stable connection constantly. That is how it is and that is how it will remain. Some disconnects are sporadic, some are frequent, and some are even long lasting. Can't be helped, we just need to live with it.

So far so good (or bad if you prefer).

Now, with this said, I am truly sad to say that today was frustrating in another way too. The abuse we (operators, organisers, commentators) had to face through private chat messages was beyond compare. I have tried some in my time as the coordinator, but never before was it as bad as it was today.

I could likely have 50 or more banned, but I can't be bothered. I choose to spend my time on more important matters. I can take (most of) it, my fellow commentators can too, but when our volunteer operators are being bombarded with foul language, it is time to say enough is enough.

I am sure that none of the Forum readers did this, but I know that the operators got a load of rubbish thrown on to their faces because they kept crashing. For goodness sake, what is this? Does anyone really believe that they did it deliberately?

If you really must complain because you can't have it your way all the time, send a private chat message or e-mail to Fred, Uday, Rain, Ben (Inquiry) or me, but do *NOT* attack innocent people (operators) verbally.

They do not deserve that whether they are at fault or not. They were *NOT*, and yet many had the nerve to tell them how useless they are. They are not useless, they are brilliant and they deserve a lot of respect for their hard work!

Yes, we had a bad day at the office, for reasons unknown at this point. Can happen in all ways of life. It happened from Antalya today, but some tend to forget how many wonderful hours they have spent in the vugraph theatre.

Today was bad, agreed, but is it really the end of the world?

Roland

[cicus]

Walddk, on Jun 25 2007, 12:38 PM, said:

Now, with this said, I am truly sad to say that today was frustrating in another way too. The abuse we (operators, organisers, commentators) had to face through private chat messages was beyond compare. I have tried some in my time as the coordinator, but never before was it as bad as it was today.

I could likely have 50 or more banned, but I can't be bothered. I choose to spend my time on more important matters. I can take (most of) it, my fellow commentators can too, but when our volunteer operators are being bombarded with foul language, it is time to say enough is enough.


Roland

Rudeness is never justified, and I must say the operators have nerves of steel if they did not leave in the middle of action if this was the prize for their efforts.
Unfortunately, the society of bridge players is a random selection of people, with the same ratio of uncivilized persons as in the outside world.
I think the best way to get rid of them is to ignore them. The other day I played a man who 'shouted' at me in anger 'You expert? Get out of my way!!' I didn't, it was he who left the table.
In the case of operators, there is also the solution that only yellows and commentators could talk to them.

Gábor

[bid_em_up]

Walddk, on Jun 25 2007, 12:38 PM, said:

I could likely have 50 or more banned, but I can't be bothered. I choose to spend my time on more important matters. I can take (most of) it, my fellow commentators can too, but when our volunteer operators are being bombarded with foul language, it is time to say enough is enough.

Roland,

I can understand your feelings and frustrations with others rude behavior. Far be it from me to idly sit by and take abuse of this nature. If I was one of the vugraph operators, I would either pack my bags and go home (or back to my hotel room), or I would provide the person(s) in question with a directive to go find someplace extremely hot to spend their time or suggest that they go somehere and have relations with themselves. Which, of course, explains why I would never last very long as an operator. But I can understand where you are coming from.

With this in mind, please take what I am about to say as the thought provoking question it is intended to be (it is not intended as an attack towards you, even though I realize in the written medium, it may appear that way).

Why can't you be bothered?

If you do not have them banned now, it only condones their continued assinine behavior in the future. It also gives the appearance to others who see people acting in this manner, that this sort of behavior will be tolerated on the site, which in turn, encourages people who otherwise never behave like this to begin to do so.

I understand what you mean by "you choose to spend your time on more important things", but ......as Barney Fife* says:

"You gotta Nip it, Nip it, Nip it in the bud."

Meaning that, if you do not take care of it now, it will just continue to get worse. Posting this on the forum will accomplish nothing in regards to putting a stop to this kind of behavior. Your post may, however, help to alleviate your frustration level, in which case it is understandable, but it does not solve anything. The people behaving in this manner will never read your post and they are the ones who need it the most.

By claiming that you are not able to be bothered with having such users banned, to me at least, you are sending the message that you are willing to tolerate continued abuse of this nature or that you are willing to allow it to continue and probably even get worse.

Unfortunately, since you (and your other commentators) are the only ones who can see the private chat messages directed to you, we, as other users cannot assist you in having these miscreants removed from BBO.

These are likely the same people who make rude and obscene comments at playing tables. I think most of us would prefer to see these people removed from the site anyway. We can and do report them for behavior of this type at playing tables.

I would respectfully request that you reconsider your position of not spending the time necessary to have these people banned. I realize that most (if not all) your work as well as that of your operators and commentators is volunteer time. While having to spending additional time to ban these people should not be part of your "job" (especially when you have more important things to do like most of us), if this behavior is not "nipped in the bud", it is possible to reach the point where you can no longer find operators or commentators, since they can't be "bothered" to comment/operate, if they are going to be abused in such a manner.

And not having these people banned now, will just contribute to further abuse, likely in even worse manners, which leads to an never-ending downward spiral in the future.

Respectfully,

Just my $0.02 worth.


*For users who may not know, Barney Fife is the bumbling Deputy Sheriff on the Andy Griffith Show, or Mayberry RFD, played by Don Knotts.

[fifee]

cicus, on Jun 25 2007, 01:37 PM, said:

In the case of operators, there is also the solution that only yellows and commentators could talk to them.

Gábor

I agree, Gabor ! Why should vugraph operators be exposed to such nonsense?
Commentators who want feedback can have +++ in their profile to hear comments from kibs, why not do the same for vugraph operators?

Roland, we all applaud you, the volunteer operators, onsite organizers and bbo for the marvelous effort that is sustained to put us all there live ! Watching as cards are played, and matches are won and lost. We watch history in the making ! It is an incredible opportunity for all of us and we appreciate what goes into making it happen.

Bravo!

[Walddk]

bid_em_up, on Jun 25 2007, 11:21 PM, said:

Why can't you be bothered?

- 1. Because it is time consuming, and I want to focus on my job: coordinating vugraph!

- 2. Because I believe in education rather than punishment for first time offenders.

I do take notes, however, so if I am confronted with the same idiots more than once after I have asked them to calm down, I'll get in touch with one of the other yellows, usually sybarra, macaw and inquiry. My yellow status doesn't include banning users, and that is probably a good thing.

You are no doubt right when you write that the culprits don't read posts in the forums, but where else can I put it? This is the only BBO bulletin board I am aware of. Perhaps a reminder of what is considered bad behaviour should be highlighted in the lobby news on a regular basis.

I am pretty sure that most users can't be bothered to read "Rules of this Site" no matter how many times you encourage them to do that.

I am perhaps the most public figure on BBO and as such I receive more private messages than anyone else. I have the option of being invisible everywhere at all times, but I have decided against. That will obviously also expose me to abuse, but I will live with it.

The purpose of this post is to defend the innocent: local volunteer operators who have no chance of defending themselves when they are verbally abused, even when it's beyond their control!

I am prepared to take the responsibility for what commentators and operators do. Nothing is easier than passing the bucket when one is not involved directly. Blame me, don't blame those who donate an enormous amount of time on making our vugraph broadcasts run as smoothly as possible.

All I am asking is that complaints are forwarded in a civilised manner and to people who are in a position to respond and defend themselves. There comes a time when even I have had enough, but that has not happened more than 4-5 times over 6 years.

When it happens, my philosophy is: don't quit; try to do something about it!

Roland

[cicus]

bid_em_up, on Jun 25 2007, 04:21 PM, said:

These are likely the same people who make rude and obscene comments at playing tables. I think most of us would prefer to see these people removed from the site anyway. We can and do report them for behavior of this type at playing tables.

I recommend for future BBO updates to include an 'abuse' button somewhere, which makes it easy to contact that department. Also, a short description of what to do could be displayed at that place. I have seen such instructions somewhere, only I can't remember where.
Last time I reported abuse I was instructed to send a screen photo. I think this is not enough, the date and time should also be given so that they can check that the players on the screen were actually playing at that table at that time. This would exclude edited pictures.

[inquiry]

cicus, on Jun 26 2007, 01:37 AM, said:

bid_em_up, on Jun 25 2007, 04:21 PM, said:

These are likely the same people who make rude and obscene comments at playing tables.  I think most of us would prefer to see these people removed from the site anyway. We can and do report them for behavior of this type at playing tables.

I recommend for future BBO updates to include an 'abuse' button somewhere, which makes it easy to contact that department. Also, a short description of what to do could be displayed at that place. I have seen such instructions somewhere, only I can't remember where.
Last time I reported abuse I was instructed to send a screen photo. I think this is not enough, the date and time should also be given so that they can check that the players on the screen were actually playing at that table at that time. This would exclude edited pictures.

We can track what table people where at either as players or kibitzers. We can find all public chat. Private chat is another matter. There screen shots are needed because, well, private chat is private and not logged. Maybe uday can get to it as it has to be somewhere on the server, but yellows can not. Thus screen shots are needed. Public abuse never needs screen shots or chat logs, but it helps decide if we are going to confirm the event. That is, it is better to send an example of the abuse than just write to abuse and say "xxxx was extremely rude". A screen shot or chat log showing extreme rudeness that is really extreme gets much quicker action (after checking public records) than a short note.

[Rossoneri]

Sad to hear that this happened.

Having been at the live venue of a vugraph broadcast before, and actually being an assistant on a vugraph team before, I can imagine what it would have been like for the operators.

Not to mention that all this happened when the temperature was a scorching 40 degrees.

Something should be done about this abuse. It is bad enough that the operators/commentators are facing a problem that they are helpless to deal with and having to deal with this nonsense on top of that.

[JanM]

fifee, on Jun 25 2007, 06:29 PM, said:

Commentators who want feedback can have +++ in their profile to hear comments from kibs, why not do the same for vugraph operators?

Vugraph operators, like commentators, do have this option. I often suggest to new operators that they not put the +++ in their profiles simply because private messages can be distracting. I know some experienced operators who don't do it. However, my experience has been that most of the comments one gets as a Vugraph operator are helpful, so personally, I always put the +++ in my profile. It's *very* unfortunate if some spectators choose to send abusive comments to the operators.

I know exactly how frustrating disconnects can be and how hard all of our volunteer operators work to bring Vugraph to BBO spectators. That even one or two of the spectators choose to react in a critical way is extremely unfortunate. Hopefully the operators know that many more people appreciate them than blame them for what is not their fault.

[Walddk]

Tuesday was much better when, after 1½ sessions, our Turkish organisers had enough of EBL's unstable network. They got one of their own, and since then there hasn't been a single disconnect. Well, yes, there was one for about 5 seconds when the hotel had one of its frequent power cuts.

So now we know where the problem was. Sadly, no one wished to claim responsibility, a reliable source at the venue tells me. "No time to fix it", was the laconic reply.

Walddk2

...

(BBO cap off, Roland Wald cap on):

I wish they would spend more time on bridge related matters rather on arranging countless posh dinners for "important" people.

Roland

[uday]

Quote

Maybe uday can get to it as it has to be somewhere on the server, but yellows can not

We don't routinely log private chat (except for chat to/from our acbl TDs). We don't log private chat except when we think there might be a problem with a particular username. Maybe we'll rethink this all at some point but nothing rates to change in this area for a while.

[hotShot]

uday, on Jun 28 2007, 10:41 AM, said:

Quote

Maybe uday can get to it as it has to be somewhere on the server, but yellows can not

We don't routinely log private chat (except for chat to/from our acbl TDs). We don't log private chat except when we think there might be a problem with a particular username. Maybe we'll rethink this all at some point but nothing rates to change in this area for a while.

Perhaps adding vugraph operators would do the job.

[DoctorOne]

Hello there,

Now as the event from Antalya is reaching its end, my desire to drop in these words was triggered by the importance of the subject raised here by Roland. I would like to emphasize what seems to me to be a very fundamental set of characteristics of the vugraph broadcasts brought to us by BBO, and that some people out there unfortunately tend to forget, be it intentional or not. I’ll try to be clear, addressing all friends who use to watch and enjoy the BBO vugraph.

- First of all, we have to keep in mind that these broadcasts, as part of the whole BBO concept, are available to us for free!! As we get used to it and enjoy it more and more, we tend to forget it. This is a wonderful feature allowing us as Bridge fans to travel around the word, sitting comfortably in our places, watching all important events from all countries, thus reducing the distances in geographic, social and cultural terms. I am not aware of any other discipline where one has such an easy access for free.

- Every broadcasted event that you, spectators, are able to watch is the resultant of a huge combined and joined effort made by several cascaded “teams” none of them can operate properly without the appropriate input and, therefore, each team has its own role and responsibility in providing the necessary input for the next. That being said, the two teams of concern here are the “Venue team” and the “BBO Vugraph team”.

- The “Venue team” is set by the event organizers. Among others, the table operators are members of this team and their role is to record the events that are happening at the table (bidding, card play, alerts, etc…) in order to reflect the input from the players and, more, try to “materialize” the ambiance at the table, typing in comments and explanations as they are exchanged by the players. If anyone out there thinks that this is an easy task, a matter of few mouse clicks, then he/she is definitely wrong. I can tell you it is very hard, even harassing sometimes during long events, to be there, almost invisible to the players in order not to disturb them, catch every single detail, with maximum concentration to avoid any mistake in the maneuver.

- Generally speaking, in accordance with the “free of charge” spirit of BBO, the organizers and operators do their job with almost as a single reward the feeling of pride and happiness that they have successfully transmitted the event from their country and that it has been watched by thousands of people around the world. Having organized few broadcasts, I can tell you this. Things may go wrong, because of a power failure or of a lost connectivity or any other unexpected and out of control reason. And when this happens, the amount of frustration and disappointment that the organizers and operators feel “on site” is by no measure even comparable to what you feel behind your screens. Their only concern in these moments is to do all they can to re-establish the situation properly. And all what some of us find to do then is to start throwing their insults and revealing their unacceptable comments to those people who can not do anything about it !! Let’s put it this way. On a power failure in your place, you pick up your phone and start insulting the phone operator at the electricity company and the power is… still off, right? Even though you pay for it, right? Then you feel better as you relieved some of your work day pressure since, as it happens, you work at the electricity company as… a phone operator! How would you qualify this behavior? Think of another example. You turn on your TV planning to watch a tennis match at Wimbledon. The match starts and, suddenly, it is raining and the match is interrupted… So, you would tend to think that the organizers there expressly invoked the rain? Who would you call to insult? The referee? Or maybe the TV commentator?

- Now on to the “BBO Vugraph team”. When the first broadcasts started via BBO, it became obvious that a team of commentators was needed in order to bring some “life” onto the screen and that someone will have to take this in charge. Contrary to a vugraph in an “on site” room during a specific event, the BBO vugraph has to deal with different time zones, simultaneous broadcasts from different countries (there have been some days recently where more than 7 or 8 countries were broadcasting !!), proposal of different languages for the commentary when applicable, etc. As you can see, there is a need for a huge coordination effort.

- And, again, in compliance with the “free of charge” principle, this has to be done on a “voluntary” basis. And BBO found its “volunteer vugraph coordinator”: Roland Wald. With the help of many others, he did (and still doing) an enormous and great job, slowly and confidently building a team of volunteers commentators (to which I am proud to belong), arranging the schedule, assuring all countries were equally served during their broadcast according to time zones, etc. One point seems to me very important in this regard, that spectators have to keep in mind. Coordinating and commentating in a vugraph session on BBO does not mean being responsible of what happens on site. BBO commentators are not necessarily on the event site. They may even be few thousands kilometers away from it, so what’s the point in throwing at them rude comments about broken or interrupted broadcasts? All commentators are giving their time and effort whenever they can with only one motivation: they love our game! And how interesting it is to have skilled people, from around the world, opening discussions, exchanging views and explaining issues regarding both technical and cultural aspects of Bridge! I enjoyed meeting them on BBO and have learned a lot to their contact and there is no place for any kind of blame on any of them. It is unfortunate, but that is the way it is: those who do less are those who criticize more, because they have no opportunities to make mistakes!

- I am absolutely on line with Roland when he says that he believes more in education rather than in punishment. I think it is also to some extent our task as members of the BBO Vugraph team to explain this issue to the spectators and new comers. With better understanding, I am sure then that they may change their behavior. However, I am thinking about a proposal to “protect” the Vugraph theatre with an access right and I may write about it later. Meanwhile, there is ONE issue that we must never accept any negotiation about: the author of any comments, having racial content, should be immediately banned. And if I am raising this, it is because, shame, I have received some during the Antalya commentaries. Those who are concerned will recognize themselves.

I am aware that I may and will be receiving many “hidden”, aggressive and rude comments as a reply to this. Still, my final conclusion here is simple. When you see the broadcast as a “final product”, delivered for free, keep in mind the word “respect”: respect the players, the operators, the commentators, respect others, and, more fundamentally, respect yourself! Or else, leave! BBO should not become an arena for those who want to fight. There are enough arenas for them out there, mainly due to the behavior of their similar. BBO shall remain an excellent example of how Bridge contributes to create peaceful an civil links among people around the Globe !

[rona_]

Quote

I am aware that I may and will be receiving many “hidden”, aggressive and rude comments as a reply to this. Still, my final conclusion here is simple. When you see the broadcast as a “final product”, delivered for free, keep in mind the word “respect”: respect the players, the operators, the commentators, respect others, and, more fundamentally, respect yourself! Or else, leave! BBO should not become an arena for those who want to fight. There are enough arenas for them out there, mainly due to the behavior of their similar. BBO shall remain an excellent example of how Bridge contributes to create peaceful an civil links among people around the Globe !

I doubt that anyone that reads or posts in forums is going to be sending you "hidden", aggressive and rude comments. This rant would be great for the newsbox in the lobby of BBO, where everyone can see it. The forum regulars have never impressed me as being the abusive types. On the contrary, they are helpful, friendly members of BBO. Apart from this minor issue, I agree with almost everything you say here.