[gwnn]

Just another partial where I had no clue on what to do... sigh.

Scoring: MP

---

Bidding went

1♣*-1♦**
2♥***-2♠****
pass

15+
0-8 or 0-1 ctrl.
15-18 pts, decent 5+card heart suit
maximum negative

The lead is the ♥6 (135). You try the Ten, which is covered by the 2 and the 3 (opps aren't sure what the 2 conveys so you can't be sure either).

What line would you try here?

[kenrexford]

I would ruff a heart at trick two, and then play Ace-King-out in spades.

I expect hearts to be Qx6x oppoiste xx2. If spades split 4-2, they may pull my trumps and then lead diamonds, in which case I will win three spades, four hearts and a diamond, for making. If spades split 3-3, I get one overtrick as a bonus, and I have a very remote chance of a club trick in the wash.

Weird lead, though. I'm glad that I tried the heart 10. Frankly, after the explanation, I might have erred at trick one by popping Ace and taking a ruffing finesse of the 10.

[foo]

gwnn, on Jul 2 2007, 04:34 AM, said:

Just another partial where I had no clue on what to do... sigh.

South,Both,MP,
♠ xx ♥ AKJT4 ♦ Axx ♣ QJT
♠ AKxxx ♥ 3 ♦ Txx ♣ 7xxx

Bidding went
1♣*-1♦**
2♥***-2♠****
AllPass

15+
0-8 or 0-1 ctrl.
15-18 pts, decent 5+card heart suit
maximum negative

The lead is the ♥6 (135). You try the Ten, which is covered by the 2 and the 3 (opps aren't sure what the 2 conveys so you can't be sure either).

What line would you try here?

I also want to play for ♥'s Qx6x:xx2, but I'm getting rid of my mirror distribution in ♦'s faster than Ken.

So T2 and T3 are ♥A, K, pitching ♦'s.

Then I think, T4 is ♠A and T5 is a ♠ _duck_.
(That at least pulls one opponent dry of trumps if they are 42, and allows me to retain control in trumps.)

If either opponent has 4 ♠'s and 2 ♣'s, then if they get a ruff it's with a natural trump trick.

[han]

I agree that hearts are likely 4-3, good news.

Ken's line works well if spades are 3-3. However, if they are 4-2 I'd expect them to find the diamond exit after winning the third spade. Come on Ken, they are looking at the set up hearts and the diamond ace!

We'd play hearts pitching two diamonds and them ruffing the second round. We now have 1 trump and 3 clubs left, and unless we end up very lucky we won't be able to score a club trick, and make only 8.

It seems to work better to play two top hearts immediately, pitching two diamonds. Then we can play three rounds of spades. If they split 3-3 we claim 10 tricks (the same number as in Ken's line). If they split 4-2 then we still have time to set up a club trick for 9 tricks.


(You probably don't want to hear this but I don't like the jump to 2H on minimal hands.)

[gwnn]

me neither but 1♥ is artificial and 1nt can't be bid on all 5332's

[han]

foo, on Jul 2 2007, 08:47 AM, said:

Then I think, T4 is ♠A and T5 is a ♠ _duck_.
(That at least pulls one opponent dry of trumps if they are 42, and allows me to retain control in trumps.)

I don't see any way this duck can win and it can cost a trick when they are 3-3 (club ruff).

[kenrexford]

Am I missing something here?

If you win the heart Ace and King and then play spades, you cannot ever take four heart tricks. You have to cross to the diamond Ace to ruff out the last heart. If you cash A-K in hearts and then ruff a heart, RHO can stick in a high spade and you lose badly.

My line creates good things when spades are 3-3. If spades are 4-2, and if RHO has the fourth spades, then a diamond hurts not at all. I win the Ace, pitch two diamonds on the A-K, and then pitch a club on the fifth heart, which RHO is free to ruff, as that promotes a heart.

Granted, if LHO has four spades and three hearts, he can send back a diamond, maintaining a high trump. I then win the diamond Ace, cash one high heart (pitching a diamond), cash a second high heart, which RHO is free to ruff (me pitching a second high heart). Now I have established my two low spades. If I had played two top hearts and then spade-spade-spade, the opponents would lead a diamond, I'd lead a club, they would pull my second-to-last spade and sent back another diamond for me to ruff, I'd lead a second spade, and they'd cash diamonds; not much better.

[han]

You are right Ken, in that my line doesn't do any better when spades are 4-2. In fact, yours is better when the player with 4 spades also has 4 hearts. My line doesn't do any worse when spades are 3-3 though, I think you are still missing that then the fourth heart trick doesn't gain you anything as you'd be pitching a winner (the third club).

There is a fourth line which almost guarantees 9 tricks: win the ace-king of hearts pitching diamonds, play the ace-king of spades and go after clubs. Here you score one fewer tricks when spades are 3-3 or when they are 4-2 with the long spades with the long hearts (unless the lead is from Qxx, then you do equally well). However, you score more tricks when spades are 4-2 with the long spades with the short hearts. This line also allows you to change gears halfway if the opponent's carding suggests that spades are 3-3.

It's close, but I think that Ken's line is slightly better.

[kenrexford]

Hannie, on Jul 2 2007, 12:09 PM, said:

You are right Ken, in that my line doesn't do any better when spades are 4-2. In fact, yours is better when the player with 4 spades also has 4 hearts. My line doesn't do any worse when spades are 3-3 though, I think you are still missing that then the fourth heart trick doesn't gain you anything as you'd be pitching a winner (the third club).

There is a fourth line which almost guarantees 9 tricks: win the ace-king of hearts pitching diamonds, play the ace-king of spades and go after clubs. Here you score one fewer tricks when spades are 3-3 or when they are 4-2 with the long spades with the long hearts (unless the lead is from Qxx, then you do equally well). However, you score more tricks when spades are 4-2 with the long spades with the short hearts. This line also allows you to change gears halfway if the opponent's carding suggests that spades are 3-3.

It's close, but I think that Ken's line is slightly better.

When spades are 3-3, I win the expected diamond return, cash three hearts (pitching two diamonds and a club), and then play a club. A diamond comes back ruffed. Another club forces the second top honor. If that person started with only two diamonds, I now take the third club. So, my line gains on the 3-3 when the fourth round of clubs is not a winner (someone has 9xxx, K9xx, A9xx, or AK9x), no? Or, actually worse -- the club 8 also works, including in 8xxx, K8xx, A8xx, or AK8x. In other words, attacking clubs only gains if spades are 3-3 and clubs are either 3-3 or someone has 98 doubleton.

Doesn't this same "attack the clubs" problem refute the alternative line, also?

[Echognome]

gwnn, on Jul 2 2007, 06:03 AM, said:

me neither but 1♥ is artificial and 1nt can't be bid on all 5332's

I think if you are not going to rebid 1NT, then you are better off downgrading and opening this 1♥. Note you will end in the same spot (played the other way) as it happens (since partner will transfer you to 2♠). You are better off leaving 2♥ as more of a suit-oriented hand. It is one of the downsides of playing 1♥ as the super-positive. Perhaps it might be worth rethinking 1♥ as either a super-positive, or a positive with hearts (a la Kokish), but that may be more trouble than it's worth.

[gwnn]

Actually opposite a strong NT I'm pretty sure south would bid a little more than just transfer and pass. But that doesnt mean 2♥ is inherently correct. The nicest thing would be

1♥-1♠
1NT-pass (MP sequence)

But I really abhor the idea of 1♥=natural or strong.

[Echognome]

gwnn, on Jul 2 2007, 05:04 PM, said:

But I really abhor the idea of 1♥=natural or strong.

I think this is a bit misleading. Of course I mean 1♥ = Natural AND 15-17 or Any 18+. But I understand your misgivings as you have to work a lot out to sort the hands.

[gwnn]

I got the idea but my poor English got in the way of expressing it properly

[nige1]

gwnn, on Jul 2 2007, 04:34 AM, said:

Just another partial where I had no clue on what to do... sigh.

Dealer: South Vul: Both Scoring: MP

♠ xx ♥ AKJT4 ♦ Axx ♣ QJT ♠ AKxxx ♥ 3 ♦ Txx ♣ 7xxx

Bidding went

1♣*-1♦**
2♥***-2♠****
pass

15+
0-8 or 0-1 ctrl.
15-18 pts, decent 5+card heart suit
maximum negative

The lead is the ♥6 (135). You try the Ten, which is covered by the 2 and the 3 (opps aren't sure what the 2 conveys so you can't be sure either).

What line would you try here?

My guess ♥ T A K

• 1. If ♥ Q drops, then play ♠ A K x,
  
• 2. Otherwise lead a fourth ♥.
  • (i) If RHO ruffs high, then discard (hoping he has at least three trumps)
    
  • (ii) If RHO ruffs low or fails to ruff, then (over) ruff and play ♠ A K x.

[han]

kenrexford, on Jul 2 2007, 12:59 PM, said:

Hannie, on Jul 2 2007, 12:09 PM, said:

You are right Ken, in that my line doesn't do any better when spades are 4-2. In fact, yours is better when the player with 4 spades also has 4 hearts. My line doesn't do any worse when spades are 3-3 though, I think you are still missing that then the fourth heart trick doesn't gain you anything as you'd be pitching a winner (the third club).

There is a fourth line which almost guarantees 9 tricks: win the ace-king of hearts pitching diamonds, play the ace-king of spades and go after clubs. Here you score one fewer tricks when spades are 3-3 or when they are 4-2 with the long spades with the long hearts (unless the lead is from Qxx, then you do equally well). However, you score more tricks when spades are 4-2 with the long spades with the short hearts. This line also allows you to change gears halfway if the opponent's carding suggests that spades are 3-3.

It's close, but I think that Ken's line is slightly better.

When spades are 3-3, I win the expected diamond return, cash three hearts (pitching two diamonds and a club), and then play a club. A diamond comes back ruffed. Another club forces the second top honor. If that person started with only two diamonds, I now take the third club. So, my line gains on the 3-3 when the fourth round of clubs is not a winner (someone has 9xxx, K9xx, A9xx, or AK9x), no? Or, actually worse -- the club 8 also works, including in 8xxx, K8xx, A8xx, or AK8x. In other words, attacking clubs only gains if spades are 3-3 and clubs are either 3-3 or someone has 98 doubleton.

Doesn't this same "attack the clubs" problem refute the alternative line, also?

Oops, I looked at the hand again and noticed I had them wrong all the time, sorry.