[ArcLight]

It seems that opponents make (and get away with) some really bad overcalls / balancing bids. What do I do?

IMPS

1. Opps bid 2♥ over our 1 ♠ opening bid, all white, holding:
♠J x
♥Q 8 7 4 2
♦K J 8 x
♣Q 3


I think this is a horrible 2 level bid, but maybe I'm wrong. What do you think?


2. Opps vulnerable, we are not.
Pard opens a strong 1NT (15-17) opp bids 2♦ (vulnerable) with:
♠ x x x
♥ x x x x
♦K x x x x
♣ x

This seems like a bad idea to me, but what do I know?
Their card says overcalls are natural and show 0 - 14 HCP.


3. IMPS all red, pard passes, RHO opens 1 ♦ (showing 11-15), what do you bid with:

♠J x
♥ A K Q x x x
♦J x
♣ x x x

Overcall 1♥? 2♥? 3♥? Pass? Other?


4. We are vuln, opps not.
We open 1♦, opps bid 2♦, a weirdo 2 suited take out showing hearts and another suit (doesnt have to be spades), holding:
♠J T x x
♥Q T 9 8 7
♦x
♣K T x

Is this a worthwhile 2 suited overcall? Or too weak?

What do you think?



5. Opps ended up in 4♠, down 4 undoubled
1♠ = 10-15, 2♦ = 10+
1♠ - 2♦,
2♠ - 3♠

Scoring: IMP

NS uses some kind of strong club

---

Should one of the defenders doubled?


[the system crashed when I posted, thats why there is a duplicate. It was not intentional and I apologize for the clutter - I only realized this because of Adams post]

[awm]

You have a duplicate post btw.

Sometimes crappy overcalls work, typically when partner has a fit for your suit and there was no other way into the auction. At IMPs they're a bad idea, because when they get doubled off they go for a lot and the wins when you find your fit are usually relatively small. At MPs they work a little better, but partner has to know not to take your bids seriously (i.e. don't try to penalize opponents, don't invite/game force with a decent hand) and this is still normally a net loss.

In any case, on the examples:

1. 2♥ is terrible. If partner has hearts it will probably work out, but if partner doesn't have hearts you are likely to go for a number opposite what could be no game the other way.

2. This is much more tempting in balancing seat, would never bid with this in direct position. Good reason to play penalty doubles when partner opens 1NT?

3. 2♥ seems normal. The suit is better than it needs to be, but we are red and partner is a passed hand. Wouldn't bid 3♥ on six cards and no singleton at vulnerable.

4. Don't know what their agreements are. It's not ridiculous to want to bid on this hand at favorable with "perfecto" shape for a takeout double, but most people play that bidding shows either a better hand or more distribution.

5. It's hard to double hands like this. But you don't really have to: +400 when you have no good fit and 21 hcp should score pretty well regardless. Normal opponents probably stop in 2♠, and if you try to balance you could get handed a huge minus score.

[bid_em_up]

ArcLight, on Jul 16 2007, 01:31 PM, said:

It seems that opponents make (and get away with) some really bad overcalls / balancing bids.  What do I do? 

IMPS

1. Opps bid 2♥ over our 1 ♠ opening bid, all white, holding:...
I think this is a horrible 2 level bid, but maybe I'm wrong.  What do you think?

2.  Opps vulnerable,  we are not.
This seems like a bad idea to me, but what do I know?
...
Their card says overcalls are natural and show 0 - 14 HCP.

3.  IMPS all red, pard passes, RHO opens 1 ♦ (showing 11-15), what do you bid with:
...
Overcall 1♥? 2♥?  3♥? Pass?  Other?


4.  We are vuln, opps not.
We open 1♦, opps bid 2♦, a weirdo 2 suited take out showing hearts and another suit (doesnt have to be spades),  holding:
...
Is this a worthwhile 2 suited overcall?  Or too weak?
What do you think?


5. Opps ended up in 4♠, down 4 undoubled
...
Should one of the defenders doubled?

1) I think it's horrible too.

2) Evidently, you know more than your opps. It is a bad idea.

3) 1♥. 2♥ is ok also.

4) It isn't a worthwhile 2-suited overcall for me, but am willing to grant some liberties given the vulnerability and the texture of the hand. The spots in the side suits upgrade the hand slightly. I would not do it, but I wouldn't consider it atrocious if someone else did.

5) Based on what? You have seen their bidding before, maybe?

No, I don't think either defender should have doubled. Or let me guess, this was your sequence and one of your opponents did double, right?

[Halo]

1. I'd like just a bit better heart suit.

2. No bid

3. 1H, keeping a low slow pace.

4. Happy with a two suited overcall.

5 No doubles.

[pbleighton]

1. I would pass, not close.
2. I would pass, I'd bid if white. Coming in over a strong NT white with nothing is a good idea IMO, not nearly so good red.
3. I'd bid 2H.
4. I'd bid 2D.
5. No double.

Peter

[keylime]

1. Scary. Begging to be doubled in balancing seat and left in.
2. I've had many DONT followers do this to me, and after their 800's and higher stop doing this nonsense.
3. 2H WJO is just right. Not the right hand for an IJO.
4. I play specific suit 2 suiters so pard knows where we stand; this overcall is not the worse I've ever seen but it's not my preference.
5. Doubling I think is quite speculative here. They are many a hand where you go down 2 due to crossruffing and you as declaring are sitting there in traffic waiting for a clearing to actually "declare" the hand. It happens.

Good set of questions.

[helene_t]

It's normal that they get away with it often. Sometimes their p will have some support and sometimes u can't double them for system reasons. But what do they gain? Their p lead their crappy suit? Or next time when they do have a suit, their p don take them serious?

[han]

3. 1♥.

4. I don't know what length and strength they expect so I can't comment on their bidding. I would overcall 1H, I never double with this strength.

5. No.

[Trumpace]

ArcLight, on Jul 16 2007, 01:34 PM, said:

It seems that opponents make (and get away with) some really bad overcalls / balancing bids. What do I do?

Yes, you get "fixed" sometimes. It happens. Don't worry too much about it. If you want to _always_ punish them for making crappy overcalls, that is likely not possible.

(others have replied to the hand questions you gave, so I won't bother )

[ArcLight]

[quote name='bid_em_up' date='Jul 16 2007, 02:09 PM'] [quote name='ArcLight' date='Jul 16 2007, 01:31 PM'] It seems that opponents make (and get away with) some really bad overcalls / balancing bids.  What do I do? 


5) Based on what? You have seen their bidding before, maybe?

No, I don't think either defender should have doubled. Or let me guess, this was your sequence and one of your opponents did double, right? [/quote]
Heck no!

We set them 4. At the other table, our team mates stopped in 3, doubled down 3.
We got killed on this board.


We got KILLED this match and I just want to make sure its not because we are THAT bad. (I'm not saying we are good either, but I think we are at least OK



Ive seen people balance at the 3 level with 4 Clubs and 4432 shape.
I get burned because I expect "more"


I assume that as one gets familiar with a pair, they are less likely to "fix" you with their nutty bidding.

(Thank you all for your responses)

[BebopKid]

1. 2♥ is a great bid.

2. 2D is a stupid bid.

3. bid 1H. 2 or 3 shows too weak. Double shows shorter suit.

4. 2D is really stupid, 1H would be a great bid.

5. Opps are supreme idiots.

[pbleighton]

Quote

I assume that as one gets familiar with a pair, they are less likely to "fix" you with their nutty bidding.

This is true to some extent if their *nutty bidding* is consistent. This is usually not the case.

Peter

[mike777]

Arc if you find you are still getting killed by what you think are crazy overcalls or very poor ones at best, I would post the hand that has the decision to make after the overcall as a quiz and see what the forum response and reasoning is.

[Robert]

Hi everyone

Unless they are a far better pair than you, ask for a high stakes money game.

#1 A really sick bid. Raise the stakes as high as you can afford.

#2 Re raise the stakes.

#3 Depends on the style and vul. If partner was a passed hand, I would certainly bid 2H vul. in my style. Would not disagree with 1H or a 2H bid playing my style of overcalls.

#4 Not in my methods.

#5 I know some(many?) on the forum hate Raptor 1NT bids. If partner made one of these, 4SXed(in tempo and also asking to call my broker...) is indicated. Sometimes silly bidding goes unpunished. Down four should be a decent score, down four doubled should win a short match by itself.

Tighten up your defense, if you are not playing them already try using TO doubles from both sides of the table even over NT. I am getting more penalty scores and bigger ones from using this method. It also avoids defending a nine card fit at the two level because one player has 10+ HCP and the other player bid a weak NT.

Regards,
Robert

[han]

edited.

[Robert]

Hi Hannie

Thanks. Did you read the post before or after I finished it. I have been losing a lot of posts, so I start one and edit it to save time and effort. It seems to save a lot of work.

My pearls of wisdom are often ignored, it appears that you know good work when you see it.

Regards,
Robert