[awm]

Scoring: IMP

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West deals:

PA - PA - 1♥ - 2♦
2♥ - PA - PA - ??

What's your call vulnerable at IMPs?

[Echognome]

I lead the ♦A.

[ArtK78]

I don't think I would dismiss this problem so quickly.

What do you need to make 3NT?

1) ♠A, ♦Qxx
2) ♠A, ♣Qxxxx
3) Spade stopper, ♦Q, ♣Qxxxx
4) Heart second stop with ♦Qx or ♦Jx(x), a spade stopper and some other holding somewhere that will produce a ninth trick.
5) Some other assorted holdings which include a spade stopper.

Pard might have raised to 3♦ on (1). But he could easily have passed on (2) or (3). There are probably other holdings covered in (4) and (5) on which partner had no call over 2♥.

So, how do you go about getting to 3NT, short of bidding it yourself? Double is going to get a spade bid out of partner (perhaps a lot of spades). 3♥ commits you to 3NT or the 4 level without any assurance that you can make. 3♦ is certainly a misdescription of your hand.

3♣? You are only a card off (a fourth club). That may be the way to go. Now, if partner has some of the magic holdings that I mentioned above, he may be able to take a forward going call such as 3♥ over which you will gladly bid 3NT.

But I may be dreaming.

[RichMor]

An unhappy Pass.

[kenrexford]

This is a tad weird.

I'll assume, based on my 18 HCP, that partner could have a complete Yarb. If the opponents have the full weight of their bids, partner probably has about 3 points, which is insufficient for many actions.

Partner is probable to not have four diamonds and is probable to have at most one heart. That gives partner nine cards in spades and clubs.

Partner could easily have a 5-1-3-4 yarb.

Against that, as mentioned, he could also just have a fifth club with the Queen and the diamond Queen. A spade stopper is unnecessary, IMO, becasuse the opponents probably do not have five cashing spades. They can, of course. But, probably less than 50-50.

I cannot get the info I need, though, and I cannot share what I have. But, I'm not getting rich defending 2♥. I might set it one trick, but I probably can make 3♣ or 3♦.

So, I'll bid 2NT to imply 6-4.

[rogerclee]

Agree with 2♦, now I pass.

[whereagles]

3♣ for me. Pard either has 3 diamonds or a bucketload of clubs.

[jdonn]

I bid 3♣. Partner has extremely little which is why he didn't bid, but we probably have a fit.

Lol at the thoughts of 3NT. Art do you realize some of the hands you suggest are essentially grand slams in a minor???

[mtvesuvius]

3♣, partner either has 4♣ or 3♦ here... Unless he didn't pre-empt on QTxxxxx x Jx Jx . Also, LOL @ 3NT...

[ArtK78]

I suggest you reread my possibilities. None of them is going to offer great play for a grand in a minor.

Some might offer reasonable play for a small slam in a minor.

[jdonn]

ArtK78, on Jan 21 2009, 06:26 PM, said:

I suggest you reread my possibilities.  None of them is going to offer great play for a grand in a minor.

Some might offer reasonable play for a small slam in a minor.

My answer!

[rogerclee]

Why are we fighting to declare 3m when we can defend 2h? Is 3c really getting us to a good 5c contract enough of the time?

[jdonn]

rogerclee, on Jan 21 2009, 06:41 PM, said:

Why are we fighting to declare 3m when we can defend 2h? Is 3c really getting us to a good 5c contract enough of the time?

Not sure who you are asking. I just skimmed the thread and your post is the first mention of 5♣ I see.

[rogerclee]

jdonn, on Jan 21 2009, 04:45 PM, said:

rogerclee, on Jan 21 2009, 06:41 PM, said:

Why are we fighting to declare 3m when we can defend 2h? Is 3c really getting us to a good 5c contract enough of the time?

Not sure who you are asking. I just skimmed the thread and your post is the first mention of 5♣ I see.

It seems to me that the only incentive to compete is if we think we can bid and make game somehow. If we are never bidding game, I'm not sure why I wouldn't just defend 2♥, it seems like we could very easily beat this.

[jdonn]

rogerclee, on Jan 21 2009, 06:47 PM, said:

jdonn, on Jan 21 2009, 04:45 PM, said:

rogerclee, on Jan 21 2009, 06:41 PM, said:

Why are we fighting to declare 3m when we can defend 2h? Is 3c really getting us to a good 5c contract enough of the time?

Not sure who you are asking. I just skimmed the thread and your post is the first mention of 5♣ I see.

It seems to me that the only incentive to compete is if we think we can bid and make game somehow. If we are never bidding game, I'm not sure why I wouldn't just defend 2♥, it seems like we could very easily beat this.

I agree we will often set 2♥.

But they could also make 2♥. And I presume you agree that we will often make 3 of a minor. Sometimes even when they could also make 2♥. And of course sometimes the opponents bid one more. Doesn't that just all combine into the nature of balancing?

[JLOL]

Do people think 2N here is natural or something? I thought that if you bid this was an obvious 2N and would expect partner to pass 3C with 1 more club than diamond.

Also I think the fact that RHO is third seat changes this problem a lot, the opps might have only a 43 fit which decreases our chance of finding a fit and increases the amount that we will beat them.

Overall I think I would pass, but don't feel great about it.

edit: just noticed that Ken also bid 2N rather than 3C... weird I am starting to agree with you Ken more than anyone Oo

[awm]

Scoring: IMP

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2♥ passed out at the table. It is possible to beat this by leading a spade early in the hand and then underleading the diamond honors to get a spade ruff. This defense wasn't found at the table however, and 2♥ made.

4♦ is cold and 5♦ can be made if played carefully.

[Echognome]

Seems that East could have helped out by bidding 3♦ over 2♥.

[JLOL]

Agree I think the east hand is worth 3D.

[Phil]

Echognome, on Jan 22 2009, 12:55 PM, said:

Seems that East could have helped out by bidding 3♦ over 2♥.

Agree. Pard with the heart length will find it very awkward to continue if we pass.