[ONEferBRID]

What does the following show?

1♦ -1♥
2♣ - 2♠ (4th suit, game forcing)
3♥ - 4♦
4♥ - 5♦ = to play ? or ?

[aguahombre]

ONEferBRID, on Nov 12 2009, 07:32 PM, said:

What does the following show?

1♦ -1♥
2♣ - 2♠ (4th suit, game forcing)
3♥ - 4♦
4♥ - 5♦ = to play ? or ?

4sgf establishes, as named, a game force. Once opener has shown 3 hearts in the auction, and responder then bids diamonds --diamonds are trump. You need to lose the mindset that 4sgf or NMF always has 5 cards in responder's first bid suit.

[OleBerg]

I'm the exclusion camp, but find it far from obvious.

Opener isn't limited to more than approx. 11-17, so responder do not have the license to take away the entire four level, unless he makes a very specific bid. And in this case it is very close, that a natural 5♦apart from showing specific strenght, should also show a specific number of aces.

But the less efficient your four level is, the more you need to differentiate your diamond-supports, and the classic RKCB doesn't really shine here.

So it is not obvious, but I would prefer (and expect) X-RKCB.


Sidetracking:

One of my pet conventions is that 4.th suit should be exactly invitaional. Then responder can not only force to game, but also describe the hand type immidiately. E.g:

1♦ - 1♥
2♣ - ???

      2NT = GF unsuitable for other bids.
      3♣ = GF with Clubs
      3♦ = GF with Diamonds
      3♥ = GF with hearts, sets hearts.
      3♠ = Splinter. (With clubs.)

[paulg]

So many hands, so many auctions ... but who has the time (and memory) to fit them all together?

There is a fair case for 5♦ to be exclusion in this auction. Over 3♥ responder is a little fixed if he has a slam going hand with hearts (who may have bid fourth suit because he has three clubs). Bids of 4♣ and 4♦ set another suit as trumps and bidding 3♠ (fifth suit) looks to certain to continue the confusion.

On the other hand, forcing all hands that wanted to set a minor suit as trumps to now bid 4m may give rise to an auction where responder's strength is unclear. Although few can see a hand that wants to bid 5m directly, opener is fairly limited and responder may be able to judge that slam is unlikely.

Both opener and responder knew what 5♦ meant in their regular partnership ... unfortunately it was the not the same. I don't think either of us appreciated the popularity of the other's methods!

[Fluffy]

The real question here is: If partner doesn't have spades stopped why isn't he trying for slam?

note that partner is very undefinned and can have from 11 to 17 on this auction.

To be natural he should ahve something awful in the majors such as ♠Qxxx, ♥Qxxx ♦AKJx ♣x