[aguahombre]

Scoring: MP

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1S (2NT) ? You are South.

3C would be GF with hearts.
3D would be L.R. + for spades.
3H would be competitive with hearts
3S would be mere comp with 4 Spades
Follow-up question, later. Pls accept the conditions of the question.

[jillybean]

Hearts are tempting but I need to support partner, 3♦

[rogerclee]

3C, showing hearts is really important in a spot like this.

[Phil]

rogerclee, on May 6 2010, 06:48 PM, said:

3C, showing hearts is really important in a spot like this.

Agree with Roger Lee. I can show my spade support later.

What about this: 4C - minor splinter (4D asks); 4D - fit jump in hearts?

[aguahombre]

Phil, on May 6 2010, 06:17 PM, said:

What about this: 4C - minor splinter (4D asks); 4D - fit jump in hearts?

Not sure what that means, but I don't think it is accepting the conditions, and not sure 4D--the second one-- would be accepted.

[Phil]

aguahombre, on May 6 2010, 07:25 PM, said:

Phil, on May 6 2010, 06:17 PM, said:

What about this: 4C - minor splinter (4D asks); 4D - fit jump in hearts?

Not sure what that means, but I don't think it is accepting the conditions.

Since I just made it up I kind of figured it wouldn't LOL. Sorry for the potential threadjack.

Thought 'agree with Roger' implied I am showing my hearts via 3C. .

[Echognome]

Phil, on May 6 2010, 05:17 PM, said:

rogerclee, on May 6 2010, 06:48 PM, said:

3C, showing hearts is really important in a spot like this.

Agree with Roger Lee. I can show my spade support later.

What about this: 4C - minor splinter (4D asks); 4D - fit jump in hearts?

I think most would take both 4♣ and 4♦ as splinters agreeing spades without discussion.

Anyway, I would show my hearts first with 3♣ and spades later. I'm not sure I understand the system. You have competitive and you have GF. Why wouldn't you play 3♣ as LR+ rather than GF? With the GF, you can always bid on over a signoff or double if the opponents compete to show extra values. That's how you have your 3♦ structured. I understand that new suit at the 3-level is often played as GF. However, when it's a 2-under bid, it seems to make a lot more sense to play it as LR+.

[rogerclee]

Echognome, on May 6 2010, 05:42 PM, said:

Why wouldn't you play 3♣ as LR+ rather than GF?

The two main reasons to play 3C is GF are:

1) It is very likely when your partner opened 1M, and you have the other major, your LHO is about to bid a lot. If you play 3C is GF you have a forcing pass available. If you play 3C is LR+ then you can either choose to be in a less comfortable FP situation or not have a FP available.
2) You can just play 3H is constructive, and try to pass and come back in with a less than constructive hand.

[Echognome]

rogerclee, on May 6 2010, 05:46 PM, said:

Echognome, on May 6 2010, 05:42 PM, said:

Why wouldn't you play 3♣ as LR+ rather than GF?

The two main reasons to play 3C is GF are:

1) It is very likely when your partner opened 1M, and you have the other major, your LHO is about to bid a lot. If you play 3C is GF you have a forcing pass available. If you play 3C is LR+ then you can either choose to be in a less comfortable FP situation or not have a FP available.
2) You can just play 3H is constructive, and try to pass and come back in with a less than constructive hand.

My point was that they seemed to have a broken range.

3♣ = GF with hearts
3♥ = competitive with hearts

What do I do with an invitational hand* with hearts?
*Edited - To change "LR" to "invitational hand", since we are not raising partner's suit

Obviously if they mean competitive = LR, then it's a slightly different problem. I would GF on this particular hand, but you get my point.

[the hog]

3C. I am not going to by pass showing this 6 card H suit.

[aguahombre]

jillybean, on May 6 2010, 05:43 PM, said:

Hearts are tempting but I need to support partner, 3♦

Outvoted, so far...but not necessarily wrong.

Let's follow up on the 3C bidders' choice:

1S (2NT) 3C*GF with hearts (5D)
X (P) ?

Agreed we have established a FP situation.
What is expected from the double?
What do you do?

[rogerclee]

Easy pass

[Jlall]

I'd show hearts

[Codo]

I had shown spades.
I want to establish a fit in a competetive auction as low as possible.
And you need not to be a magican to see that your next bid will be at least at the 5. level.

[mcphee]

100% 3C GF with H, we are going to play 4H or 4S, would you not bid 2H over 1S had RHO passed, open the bidding?

[marcD]

4♥ showing S+H . Obviously the hand is not pure (I'd rather have 4S) but this is probably the last opportunity to describe my hand

[gwnn]

This is indeed the last opportunity to describe your hand so why waste it on an undiscussed and confusing bid?

[pooltuna]

aguahombre, on May 6 2010, 06:41 PM, said:

Scoring: MP

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1S (2NT) ? You are South.

3C would be GF with hearts.
3D would be L.R. + for spades.
3H would be competitive with hearts
3S would be mere comp with 4 Spades
Follow-up question, later. Pls accept the conditions of the question.

3♦ only because I have no immediate ♠GF

[aguahombre]

Ok, I will make a better attempt to pose the follow-up.

Suppose you were forced to either GF with hearts or to L.R. + in spades.

1S-(2nt)-CHOICE-(5D)
X (P) ?

A) If you chose GF with hearts, what would you expect opener's double of 5D to show in this FP situation ---and what would you do?
B) If you chose L.R. + for spades, what would you expect opener's double of 5D to show --and what would you do?

[Fluffy]

if I pick to show hearts (I would) double now is lack of fit, probably singleton heart and I'd pass.

if I pick LR in spades, double is wasted values in the minors and/or bad spades, so I pass again.