[hanp]

Scoring: Patton

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1D - (2D*) - 2S** - (4H)
5C - (p) - ??

2D showed the majors, 2S showed a limit raise or better for diamonds.

[Free]

Were we in a forcing pass situation?

V vs NV with limit raise or better sets up a forcing pass according to Robson-Segal, but some people argue that the vulnerability shouldn't influence this. Not sure in which camp you belong...

[jukmoi]

6♦. I think 5♣ is a cuebid. If we use italian style cuebids partner has denied ♠ control. If partner has made a slam invitation holding ♠xx then I dont think we should be too worried about ♥ control. Since we only hold values for a limit I will bid only 6♦. Maybe 5♠ would be too encouracing.

[kfay]

Don't bid slam!!!

[hanp]

I'm pretty sure that partner didn't think that 2S created a forcing pass either, and I don't regard Robson-Segal as the ultimate competitive bidding bible. In the meantime, partner has made a slam try so who cares.

Could you explain your post kfay?

[Free]

In that case I'll just bid 5♠, we don't need that much for grand slam in partner's hand.

[pooltuna]

hanp, on Jun 8 2010, 06:59 AM, said:

Dealer: North Vul: N/S Scoring: Patton

♠ AKxxx ♥ 109 ♦ J10xxx ♣ x

1D - (2D*) - 2S** - (4H)
5C - (p) - ??

2D showed the majors, 2S showed a limit raise or better for diamonds.

not sure what the meta agreements should be for this. Looks like partner has a ♠ or ♥ problem but he still made a slam try. I will risk trusting the opps to have a 10 card fit and assume partner has 2 low ♠s -- 6♦

[dake50]

Does partner double 4H with H-xx(x), ie. no H-control fearing 6D fails.
Then 5C cues with H-control.

[Phil]

Without a forcing pass (I've played it both ways, and both methods are reasonable), I cannot determine is pard is xx, xx, or x, xx or xx, x, so I'm not throwing away a vulnerable game at (partial) IMPs on the hope I guess right, so I pass.

There's a fair chance if I pass in tempo that LHO will take the push to 5♥, and now partner can make a forcing pass (due to 5♣), and we can then confidently take the push to 6.

Good problem!

[kfay]

Sorry, you're right. Partner is showing a heart control. Although slam could easily still be on a hook. If the control is a stiff, I think I would want to only bid 5d if it's an ace then 6d.


I think 6s is asking for too much, partner could be staring at the world and bid grand off Qxxx of trimps. Furthermore he'll have to ruff a LOT of clubs, if they're not solid and a bad trump split would probably scuttle us, that's with him holding D AKQ.

Frankly I feel like stiff heart is just as likely as the ace on this auction which, in my mind, makes the slam 50/50 so I just wimp out and bid game. Certainly in the process barring partner from bidding slam on his own.

[Apollo81]

I would bid 6♦. The 5th trump and ♠AK are pretty good holdings here. Hopefully partner has something like xx x AQxxxx AQxx as opposed to xx x Axxxx AKJxx

[jukmoi]

Phil, on Jun 8 2010, 10:30 AM, said:

Without a forcing pass (I've played it both ways, and both methods are reasonable), I cannot determine is pard is xx, xx, or x, xx or xx, x, so I'm not throwing away a vulnerable game at (partial) IMPs on the hope I guess right, so I pass.

There's a fair chance if I pass in tempo that LHO will take the push to 5♥, and now partner can make a forcing pass (due to 5♣), and we can then confidently take the push to 6.

Good problem!

You might also end playing 5.♣?

[Phil]

jukmoi, on Jun 8 2010, 02:08 PM, said:

Phil, on Jun 8 2010, 10:30 AM, said:

Without a forcing pass (I've played it both ways, and both methods are reasonable), I cannot determine is pard is xx, xx, or x, xx or xx, x, so I'm not throwing away a vulnerable game at (partial) IMPs on the hope I guess right, so I pass.

There's a fair chance if I pass in tempo that LHO will take the push to 5♥, and now partner can make a forcing pass (due to 5♣), and we can then confidently take the push to 6. 

Good problem!

You might also end playing 5.♣?

Oy, sorry, yeah 5♦.

[hanp]

Alright, say you bid 6D as I did. (I now think this was a mistake so I'd be interested to hear more comments).

LHO bids 6H which is passed around to you. What do you do?

To Free: partner's pass was forcing.

[dake50]

After .. 6D, <6H> P <P> ??
First H-control and leaving grand for consideration - from partner's non-double.
WOW! Grand looks good, but I've already pushed hard for 6D. Double 6H.

[Crunch3nt]

If 5C is a cuebid, then 6D was an error as in this specific situation, it should be mandatory to cue 5S with the Ace. Partner is unlimited and can easily have a hand cold for grand. Partner will never bid 7D holding a singleton heart.

Now over partner's forcing pass, there is a huge premium at patton scoring for bidding the grand. Partner can have xx - AKxxx AKxxx or the same with the HA. If it is on a diamond finesse (or perhaps even club finesse) then it will probably work.

I agree I have done a lot of bidding with this hand, but partner seems to want me to...

[gszeszycki]

I would jump to 6d and the only reason I would not bid 5s to search for 7 is because I am too afraid of a spade void in lho and a first round spade ruff.
1 less spade and 1 more heart or dia and I bid 5s.

[wank]

i wouldn't have made a 5s grandie try on the previous round. people call cuebids compulsory when they're looking at mountains and just require certain cards from partner. when they have a less than mountainous hand they want partner's cuebids to be informative.

however having jumped to 6D and partner's still interested i'll give it the 7th.

[hanp]

Partner had xx - AKQxxx AKxxx. Further thoughts?

[gnasher]

hanp, on Jun 11 2010, 01:08 PM, said:

Partner had xx - AKQxxx AKxxx. Further thoughts?

I agree with wank - 5♠ would be too much with such bad trumps, but once partner invites a grand slam you should bid it.

With partner's actual hand, he might just bid 7♦ anyway. It's hard to believe responder can have a 6♦ bid without at least ♠AQ, given how little he has elsewhere.