[Poky]

IMPs. All love.

1♦-(3♠)-???

♠-
♥QJ8654
♦A5
♣A8654

[inquiry]

This is a horrible, horrible hand.

Misho and I play 4♣ here shows clubs and ♥s, and is forcing. But the disparity in the two suits is suggest that might not be the correct approach. It is true that after 4♣ he bids 4♦, then 4♥ would show an extra long ♥ suit, so I have some protection here. Reverse the minors, so there is no step in between and and I would not condier 4♣. So with him, I can temporize with 4♣ and have a chance for 4♥, 5♣ and slam in any suit but ♠s.

But since few others play this meta defense thing that we use, let's see what I would bid if playing no such agreement.

This is a powerful hand. Bidding 4♥ might miss laydown grandslam if partner has a bland minimum like... xxx AKxx Kxxx Kx

But if partner is well heeled in the spades and diamonds, we might not be able to make anything (give him.. KQxx x KQJxx Qxx

Even a ♥ fit is not enough to secure slam.. consider partner with QJx AKx KQxx xxx, where you have to lose at least two clubs.

On this hand, where no one knows what the other side can make, I think I will make the tactical bid of 4♠, followed by 5♥ (immediate 5♥ ask for slam here with ♠ control. The reason I bid 4♠ is I hope to entice a double. If I do entice a double, I am gong to bid 6♥ instead of 5♥. The reason being if I don't know if I can make 6♥, neither do they, and I bet they will take the 6♠ save. If partner bids 5♣ over 5♠, I will change horses and bid 6♣. Still, I have no idea what makes.

[luis]

4s as Ben said a terrible hand but at least I do have a void in spades and I can play in hearts and clubs so I think 4s might help pd more than the other bids.
I really don't know what I will do at my next turn.

[Free]

Either 4♠ or 5♥ for me.

[inquiry]

Free, on Aug 3 2004, 11:03 AM, said:

Either 4♠ or 5♥ for me.

Well.. a tactical 6♥ might but a lot of pressure on your lho. He may take a phanthom sac, or you may make. The problem with 6♥ partner looking at somethiong like AK of ♥ might bid too much, even looking at K of hearts he might bid too much.

But I want to probe what good a 5♥ bid does. Doesn't this ask for slam with a ♠ control? Maybe we should take a poll on the meaning of 5♥ here. IF partner has a spade control (say ♠K), that really isn't good for you.

Ben

[luis]

inquiry, on Aug 3 2004, 03:13 PM, said:

Free, on Aug 3 2004, 11:03 AM, said:

Either 4♠ or 5♥ for me.

Well.. a tactical 6♥ might but a lot of pressure on your lho. He may take a phanthom sac, or you may make. The problem with 6♥ partner looking at somethiong like AK of ♥ might bid too much, even looking at K of hearts he might bid too much.

But I want to probe what good a 5♥ bid does. Doesn't this ask for slam with a ♠ control? Maybe we should take a poll on the meaning of 5♥ here. IF partner has a spade control (say ♠K), that really isn't good for you.

Ben

I think 5h invites to 6h with a spade control.
I want to know what do you do after 4s and some of the possible pd responses:

1: 4NT (what is this?)
2: 5c (do we bid 5d, seems easy, looking for 7? can we be too high?)
3: 5d (do we pass or bid 5h ?)
4: 5h (what now?)
6: 6c (and now?)
7: 6h (and now?)

[Free]

I would interpret 5♥ as slam try, only needs good ♥s (2 tophonours usually). Problem is that you throw away your ♣s with that bid, and you might end up in a poor slam with 2 losers in a minor. I think 4♠ is still better...

[inquiry]

Free, on Aug 3 2004, 12:03 PM, said:

I would interpret 5♥ as slam try, only needs good ♥s (2 tophonours usually).  Problem is that you throw away your ♣s with that bid, and you might end up in a poor slam with 2 losers in a minor.  I think 4♠ is still better...

I agree with Luis (well, since I stated it first, he actually agreed with me), that a 5♥ bid here is looking for six with a ♠ control.

To answer luis's question.... What do i bid over...

4NT --> 5♥ leave it up to parnter
5♣ --> 6♣ mabye underbid, but don't want to risk 5♥ now
5♦ --> 5♥ leave it up to partner
5♥ --> 5NT (partner went beyond 5♦ msiign both minor aces, I guess he has AK hearts and running diamonds missing the ACE, I plan on biddng grand if he has both top hearts, counting on club ACE and 12 red tricks, or 11 reds and AK of clubs
5♠ --> you kidding right?
6♣ --> ugh, I stayed fixed and pass, possible heart loser and no way to investigate
6♦ --> ugh, I become unfixed and bid 6♥. Can't imagine 6♦ and not 6♥

Not that I think any of these are perfect options.

Ben

[luke warm]

i think i'd just punt, er i mean double..

[pclayton]

I'm a punter too. Only real fear is partner takes a view on the total tricks and passes. I might get a 4♣ or possibly a 4♥ call, where I'll be very well placed (4♠). Over 4♦, I'll just try 5♦.

I think we are playing with a 30 point deck here because of the preeempt. (Please no obvious references to me "not playing with a full deck")

5♥ is definitely out for me; this explicitly asks for a spade control; which I got.

[han]

I'd bid 5H too, imo this does not ask for a spade control but naturally invites 6H.

I think double is awful, partner is far too likely to convert (and I don't want that).

This is a good hand for extended switch, where 4C would show hearts (and 4H would show clubs). Lately I've seen so many hands where this would work out that I am tempted to start playing it.

[Flame]

At MP i would have double, this will give give the best score most of the time.
At IMP however its not just the likewood of getting a good score, but also how good the score will be, and double will not get us an excelent score while 4sp can.
So imp i bid 4sp.

[inquiry]

Hannie, on Aug 5 2004, 09:53 AM, said:

I'd bid 5H too, imo this does not ask for a spade control but naturally invites 6H.

I think double is awful, partner is far too likely to convert (and I don't want that).

This is a good hand for extended switch, where 4C would show hearts (and 4H would show clubs). Lately I've seen so many hands where this would work out that I am tempted to start playing it.

The reason 5H ask for a spade control, is because ot ask for good hearts, you can show your spade control and then BID 5 hearts yourself.. so for instance with...

---

you can bid 4S follwoed by 5H, but with

---

you can bid 5H looking for a spade control for slam.

At least that is the logic I think luis, pclayton, myself and others are trying to express here...

[han]

Almost an identical auction came up yesterday on viewgraph during European Championships girls Austria-Netherlands, I believe the auction went 1m-(4H)-5S. Opener had AKJ of spades, and had an easy 6S bid.

I believe the consensus of the commentators was that 5S should ask for a heart control if spades had been bid before. Here, most played it as a natural invite.

Notice that in the above auction you can't cuebid and then show spades, while in our hand you can. Maybe this should be the rule for whether the 5-level bid asks for a control, but I would surely forget such a complicated rule at the table.

[whereagles]

If 5NT is available as pick-a-slam, I'd try that. If not, I might try 4C... It could follow:

... 4C
4D 4H
5C 5H
5NT 6H

4D = most likely reply
4H = tends to show some 55 or 65 (with 4H and 5+C, double 3S instead of bidding 4C). Two-suiter should be strong, else just double 3S or bid 4H with 55/65 and decent hearts
5C = possible preference
5H = extra lenght in hearts
5NT = I'm tired of this. You pick the slam
6H = ok, you asked for it

Admittedly, this is a questionable way to bid the hand. But sure is bound to have a funny post-mortem LOL

[the hog]

"If 5NT is available as pick-a-slam, I'd try that."

So partner bids 6D with

Qxxx
AK
QTxxx
Kx

[whereagles]

I didn't say it would work 100% of the time. Actually, I was thinking of pick-a-slam from the other two suits, not diams.

[Trpltrbl]

X and after pd's 3 NT, I bid 5♥.
If opps interfere I bid 4 NT next.

Mike