[ArcLight]

What is the most effective convention for interfering with opponents NT bids?
ASTRO has been around for a long time. D.O.N.T from Bergen/Cohen is newer. Any other methods?

What do the pros use and why?

[inquiry]

There is a lot of methods... a "popular one" for no good reason is capelletti. Just yesterday I was playing and I asked partner to play BBO advanced card and anything BUT capelletti.. a few hands as north I hear this auction..

Scoring: IMP

---

West North East South
 -     -     1NT   2♣!
 2♠!   Pass  3♣!   Pass
 3♦    Pass  3NT   Pass
 Pass  Pass  

Partner bids 2♣ and says publcally "capp". Argh... 2!S was alerted as not spades. I told kibitizers that this is why I hate capelletti.. if partner has a major, I want to be bidding, but if partner has diamonds, I need to be passing. We never got into the bidding, and to make matters worse, partner lead a spade.. death for the defense. Now imagine if partenr ACTUALLY bids his suit.. .we will be in 4♠ in a flash. Oh well...

I like Merckwell.. where DBL of 1NT is either a major two suiter or a minor one suiter. 2C and 2D are don't like, and 2H and 2S show the bid suit. Woolsey is not bad either. Look up this link for a comprehensive list of defenses to 1NT...

http://www.blakjak.d...uk/def_1nt0.htm

[Free]

This is an original question... As I always answered: it depends on the range of the 1NT bid.

Vs weak NT I prefer multi-Landy (or perhaps Cappeletti)
Vs strong NT I prefer Meckwell

[hrothgar]

ArcLight, on Aug 9 2004, 05:02 PM, said:

What is the most effective convention for interfering with opponents NT bids?
ASTRO has been around for a long time. D.O.N.T from Bergen/Cohen is newer. Any other methods?

What do the pros use and why?

Personally, I'm fond of Lionel which matches my preferred bidding style.

Double = Spades + another suit
2C = Clubs and Hearts
2D = Diamonds and Hearts
2H = Hearts
2S = Spades
2N = Big 2 suiter
3C = Clubs
3D = Diamonds

Playing Lionel, suits are natural, which places much more pressure on the opponents. Good pressure bidding style, while allowing us to quickly clarify suits.

[han]

I'm not a pro, but will answer the question anyway.

There are many many conventions around, most popular in the US probably dont or hamilton/cappelletti. The main difference is that capp uses a penalty/strong double, while dont uses the double to show a single suiter, making capp more popular over weak notrumps.

I don't care much for what exactly I play over a strong notrump, but I don't believe in a penalty double. I also want to bid 2M immediately with a single major. You can easily modify dont or capp to make this possible.

This is what I currently play with most of my partners:

Dbl = spades plus other.
2C = clubs plus hearts.
2D = diamonds plus hearts.
2H/2S = natural.
2NT= minors.

In Holland it is called Lionel, in the US sometimes Astro-Grano. The main advantage versus dont is that you immediately know both suits. The main disadvantage is that you have to go to the 3-level with a minor or oth minors.

[Free]

Hannie, on Aug 9 2004, 03:28 PM, said:

The main advantage versus dont is that you immediately know both suits. The main disadvantage is that you have to go to the 3-level with a minor or both minors.

You can avoid the disadvantage of going to 3-level with both minors if you change the 2♣ bid to ♣ & ♦/♥. But then you don't know the ♥ suit for sure anymore... However, it's still better than the DONT-2♣

[pclayton]

I'm never dealt a penalty double of 1N, and when I do, the opponents have the sufficient tools to run out.

When I play Capp, I am dealt hands with longer minors than majors, and when I play DONT, I am dealt longer majors than the minor!

Woolsey allows you to show both types of hands. In a nutshell:

Dbl: Minor / Major 2 suiter (typically longer minor).
2♣: Both majors
2♦: One major
2♥: Hearts and a minor
2♠: Spades and a minor
2N: Both minors
3♣ / 3♦: Single suit

Here's a link to the entire system.

http://www.gg.caltec...em/woolsey.html

Note: In the ACBL, the 2♦ call showing an unknown major isn't legal, except in mid-chart events, however, they are allowing midchart defenses to 1N in regionals (except pair games). You can make an easy adjustment, however, by switching the 2♣ and 2♦ calls.

Over weak NT, I'm happy with Landy or even natural .

[whereagles]

My personal preference is this method (modified Cansino):

2C = 3+ clubs, 4+ hearts, and 3+ other suit
2D = 3+ diams, 4+ spades, and 3+ other suit

This allows you to overcall on balanced hands, which are the ones that come out more often after opponents 1NT. Overcall range is 9-15, but the weaker you are, the more 3-suited the hand should be. With 9-10 overcall on 4441 or 5440's. With 11-12 you can try 4432's also. With 13-15 a 4333 will do.

As for other bids, opposite strong NT you can
pass = weak hand or strong balanced hand 16+
X = 1-suiter
2H/S = 55's

Opposite weak NT,
pass = weak hand only
X = penalty
2H/S = natural

Cansino can be used 2nd or 4th seat as well.

[luke warm]

ok, i'm gonna post this (it's by far my favorite, it's just impossible to get anyone to give it a try )

i'll save the "hard" bid for last:
2C=diamonds and hearts OR hearts only
2D=hearts and spades OR spades only
2H=spades and clubs OR clubs only
2S=3 suited with spades
2NT=3 suited without spades... and
X=clubs and diamonds OR diamonds only OR pointed OR rounded

this works over weak or strong nt, and it's a whole lotta fun to play.. look at ben's example hand, for example.. after (1NT) 2D (whatever) ben goes to 4S and is happy as a lark.. hell, happier since there *could* be a double fit

[Trpltrbl]

Meckwell.

Mike

[mishovnbg]

Mekwell - the only way to play 2 of minor all time when need. All other conventions practically can't fight for score at 2 of minor and can pay at 3 of minor.
Misho

[jtfanclub]

Wow, not a single vote for Brozel, my favorite. Maybe I should change the system I play. Meckwell's close enough that I suspect that serves the same purpose: you can overcall with 5-4 or even 4-4 because your partner can pass and he doesn't have to spend any time looking.

Against weak NTs, I use something really odd...Brozel with penalty doubles.
X=Penalty, or 11+ with a good minor in direct seat.
2C=C+H
2D=D+H
2H=H+S OR a strong hand with 5+ H.
2S=S+minor OR a strong hand with 5+ S.
2NT=minors
3 of any suit is pre-emptive.

But then, that's probably why I haven't made it to Advanced yet.

[luke warm]

mishovnbg, on Aug 22 2004, 07:43 PM, said:

Mekwell - the only way to play 2 of minor all time when need. All other conventions practically can't fight for score at 2 of minor and can pay at 3 of minor.
Misho

not quite true... the system i posted plays at 2 of a minor very nicely

and jt, brozel is a fine convention... i like it *far* more tha a lot of the ones people play

[mishovnbg]

luke warm, on Aug 22 2004, 11:14 PM, said:

mishovnbg, on Aug 22 2004, 07:43 PM, said:

Mekwell - the only way to play 2 of minor all time when need. All other conventions practically can't fight for score at 2 of minor and can pay at 3 of minor.
Misho

not quite true... the system i posted plays at 2 of a minor very nicely

and jt, brozel is a fine convention... i like it *far* more tha a lot of the ones people play

Luke:

"2C=diamonds and hearts OR hearts only
2D=hearts and spades OR spades only
2H=spades and clubs OR clubs only
2S=3 suited with spades
2NT=3 suited without spades... and
X=clubs and diamonds OR diamonds only OR pointed OR rounded"

Comments:
What I like is principle "2 suits with higher or only higher" - partially implemented in this try.
Now what I dont like, sorry Luke:
- many "or"s - useless bids in competition, so dbl = nonsence, similar to "I have any unbalanced hand p".
- pointed and rounded and... - at 3 level with ♣ preference after 2♦ bid of responder.
- 1 suited ♣ hand - only 3 level available.
- any 3 suited hand with minor preference go to 3 level - terrible
Misho

[Dean]

I like BEWARE

X = any two suiter 9-14
suit = natural 9-14
3 -level = preemptive
2NT = 15-17 very good single suiter.

If sitting over the weak NT bidder then double = penalties and 2C = majors.


Dean

[luke warm]

[quote name='mishovnbg' date='Aug 23 2004, 05:36 PM'] [quote name='luke warm' date='Aug 22 2004, 11:14 PM'] [quote name='mishovnbg' date='Aug 22 2004, 07:43 PM'] Mekwell - the only way to play 2 of minor all time when need. All other conventions practically can't fight for score at 2 of minor and can pay at 3 of minor.
Misho [/QUOTE]
not quite true... the system i posted plays at 2 of a minor very nicely

Luke:

"2C=diamonds and hearts OR hearts only
2D=hearts and spades OR spades only
2H=spades and clubs OR clubs only
2S=3 suited with spades
2NT=3 suited without spades... and
X=clubs and diamonds OR diamonds only OR pointed OR rounded"

Comments:
What I like is principle "2 suits with higher or only higher" - partially implemented in this try.
Now what I dont like, sorry Luke:
- many "or"s - useless bids in competition, so dbl = nonsence, similar to "I have any unbalanced hand p".
- pointed and rounded and... - at 3 level with [cl] preference after 2[di] bid of responder.
- 1 suited [cl] hand - only 3 level available.
- any 3 suited hand with minor preference go to 3 level - terrible
Misho [/quote]
my post was in response to you saying only meckwell allowed a partscore of 2m... that isn't so... yes, a one suited club hand is 3C but it's preemptive in nature, and (i think) even meckwell bids 3C with that type hand... if they don't i know others do... i don't understand your criticism of double... i believe meckwell shows a minor/major there (or maybe something else now, it's changed)

[inquiry]

luke warm, on Aug 23 2004, 07:18 PM, said:

my post was in response to you saying only meckwell allowed a partscore of 2m... that isn't so... yes, a one suited club hand is 3C but it's preemptive in nature, and (i think) even meckwell bids 3C with that type hand... if they don't i know others do... i don't understand your criticism of double... i believe meckwell shows a minor/major there (or maybe something else now, it's changed)

Well.. misho knows that, playing dont for instance, you can overcall 2♣ or 2♦ and play in 2 of a minor when parnter fits for that suit. What he meant was Merckwell allows you to play EXACTLY 2♦ or 2♣.

The trick to this is the use of DBL. Here DBL shows a major TWO SUITER or a minor ONE SUITER. This allows you to find your major fit or to play in a minor (the one you hold). So with just diamonds, for instance, you dbl, and when your partner bids 2♣, you can correct to 2♦ (with diamonds you can pass of course).

This has been very effective. Now is it the only option... of course not, read this thread, but I think Misho's point still stands true.

Ben

[luke warm]

as always, the best way is to post some hands and compare, or run some sims and compare... everyone has opinions on what is best, and i'll grant that misho (and you) have more experience than i have in this... but as the proliferation of nt defenses at very high levels shows, even world class players disagree, and do so quite often

[inquiry]

luke warm, on Aug 24 2004, 07:33 PM, said:

as always, the best way is to post some hands and compare, or run some sims and compare... everyone has opinions on what is best, and i'll grant that misho (and you) have more experience than i have in this... but as the proliferation of nt defenses at very high levels shows, even world class players disagree, and do so quite often

Hi,

I like merckwell, and FOR ME, it is the best that I have used. I don't like Capelletti, and I played that for quite a while before I decided why I didn't like it. I also happen to like Woolsey and dont. So my preference is small... I was only defending Misho's statement about the method to play exactly 2m with a minor one suiter.

Ben

[Free]

I've always heard you have to intervene opps strong NT as much as possible, in the long run it pays off. If you can bid any hand which isn't 4333, you get very close to that goal. DONT can bid anything, but their singlesuited hands don't pay off imo, they have to dbl first. With Meckwell, you bid 2M natural, which is imo a lot better. 1NT-2♥-BANG. The disadvantage ofcourse is that you can't bid 2♥ with 44+M, but you have to dbl with that. Since opps might end up in 2m, you can still show 44+M after that hand, so not much problems there imo.

There is a little remark: pure "Meckwell defense vs 1NT" actually means 2♣ is 4+♣ and 4+M, so 44+ with both minors is excluded (only 2NT or so available for that). I still don't know if it has extra advantages to show a Major sidesuit at once, or just to intervene with 2♣, even with both minors... I think being able to P/C for 2 suits is better than 3 suits, and then ofcourse the Majors are a better spot. You'll have to pass with 44+ or 54+ m when you're too weak for 3-level, but as we all know (I think), intervening with 2♣ after 1NT actually doesn't take away anything. Perhaps using 2♣ as rather constructive (promissing a Major for sure) is the best way, so pure Meckwell might be the best outcome.