[rduran1216]

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MPs

I caught alot of flack for doubling this contract because I dbld C players. I maintained that apart from Itabashi, I'd dbl with this hand against anyone. Was I out of line?

[mtvesuvius]

I definitely wouldn't, but this looks like a pretty joker auction and at MPs I guess I maybe could find an excuse to consider it. Against anyone competent* I think doubling is very bad, against C players I think it's bad but not horrid.

*Edited, I failed my spelling bee. Or maybe I'm just tired.

This post has been edited by mtvesuvius: 2011-February-07, 00:53

[dboxley]

mtvesuvius, on 2011-February-07, 00:20, said:

I definitely wouldn't, but this looks like a pretty joker auction and at MPs I guess I maybe could find an excuse to consider it. Against anyone contempt I think doubling is very bad, against C players I think it's bad but not horrid.

I probably wouldn't dbl competent players but would certainly dbl contempt players, even at the nationals level.

[Vampyr]

The problem with weaker players is that you don't know just what their weakness is. Perhaps this pair are chronic underbidders. Plus, the percentage line in trumps may be one that picks up your jack, but they might not know it -- until you double.

[andy_h]

I would have doubled 1C fwiw

[Free]

rduran1216, on 2011-February-06, 23:48, said:

I caught alot of flack for doubling this contract because I dbld C players.

Let me get this straight: according to some people you shouldn't have doubled because your opps are poor players? Are you allowed to make a killing lead against poor players? Or play DONT just to mess up their agreements? This is ridiculous. The only way for them to get better is by getting punished severely when they make mistakes. You're a hero to help them improve!

[Vampyr]

Free, on 2011-February-07, 02:55, said:

Let me get this straight: according to some people you shouldn't have doubled because your opps are poor players? Are you allowed to make a killing lead against poor players? Or play DONT just to mess up their agreements? This is ridiculous. The only way for them to get better is by getting punished severely when they make mistakes. You're a hero to help them improve!

No, this can't be what he meant. I think the point was that the weak players' bidding was not to be trusted, so doubling on the sound of the auction was not a good strategy. And may be a big loser when they now find the trump jack.

[Free]

Vampyr, on 2011-February-07, 03:50, said:

No, this can't be what he meant. I think the point was that the weak players' bidding was not to be trusted, so doubling on the sound of the auction was not a good strategy. And may be a big loser when they now find the trump jack.

For the record, imo Dbl on 4♠ is very poor.

[nigel_k]

The main case where double gains is when the field is in game down one, and your opponents are down one doubled. That's quite a narrow target. If the field is not in game you don't need to double. If your opponents play a trick worse than the field you don't need to double either. The losing cases are any time game is cold, or when your double helps them. Surely that is more likely.

[nige1]

rduran1216, on 2011-February-06, 23:48, said:

MPs
I caught alot of flack for doubling this contract because I dbld C players. I maintained that apart from Itabashi, I'd dbl with this hand against anyone. Was I out of line?

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Free, on 2011-February-07, 03:58, said:

For the record, imo Dbl on 4♠ is very poor.

IMO _P = 10, _X = 9. The downside of double is that it may allow declarer to make a contract that would normally fail and a club lead may not be best. The upside of double is that opponents appear to be stretching.

[rduran1216]

My reason for doubling was that i couldnt imagine them making 10 tricks. Every time I got in I led a trump, I eventually got 2 clubs, 2 hearts and my partner's Q of diamonds.

Assuming their bids are solid, which IMO they were, I'm imagining semi flat hands on both sides. If anyone has 4 hearts it is my RHO which is good news for my A10xx. Partner is marked with about a Q or K, and with this dbl screaming for a club thru RHO suit i just envisioned 4441 trumps around the table and an impossible path to 10 tricks. Is this too much speculation?

[Vampyr]

rduran1216, on 2011-February-07, 10:35, said:

My reason for doubling was that i couldnt imagine them making 10 tricks. Every time I got in I led a trump, I eventually got 2 clubs, 2 hearts and my partner's Q of diamonds.

Assuming their bids are solid, which IMO they were, I'm imagining semi flat hands on both sides. If anyone has 4 hearts it is my RHO which is good news for my A10xx. Partner is marked with about a Q or K, and with this dbl screaming for a club thru RHO suit i just envisioned 4441 trumps around the table and an impossible path to 10 tricks. Is this too much speculation?

Well, nothing succeeds like success. Why were you hassled?

[Phil]

rduran1216, on 2011-February-06, 23:48, said:

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I maintained that apart from Itabashi, I'd dbl with this hand against anyone.

There is no code, written, or otherwise, that you shouldn't double weak players. Please lose this baggage, and kindly tell people that suggest you should not double to STFU. Direct them my way if you want.

OK, don't double your girlfriend, wife or mother if they are weak, but thats a different issue. Or the girl you are trying to bag.

The players would have to be pretty bad for me to double with this. I can't be at all confident I am beating it. How many matchpoints are you getting for them getting to a no-play game (answer - a lot). How many matchpoints are you getting for -420? (some) 590? zero

[Free]

Phil, on 2011-February-07, 11:35, said:

OK, don't double your girlfriend, wife or mother if they are weak, but thats a different issue. Or the girl you are trying to bag.

I disagree except with the last part. If you always Double with this hand, you'll let them make more than you'll defeat them (I think). So if you want to be the nice boyfriend/husband/son you just double and give some points away.

However, if you Double the girl you're trying to bag and she makes her contract, you'll be considered a loser and you've blown all your chances...