BBO Discussion Forums: lead problem - BBO Discussion Forums

Jump to content

  • 3 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

lead problem

#21 User is offline   whereagles 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 14,900
  • Joined: 2004-May-11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Portugal
  • Interests:Everything!

Posted 2011-June-10, 10:19

It'd be a club for me.
0

#22 User is offline   Hanoi5 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 4,082
  • Joined: 2006-August-31
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Santiago, Chile
  • Interests:Bridge, Video Games, Languages, Travelling.

Posted 2011-June-10, 10:23

View Postrduran1216, on 2011-June-10, 10:10, said:

a trump lead is devastating.


Devastating. I hope it's not a language/logic thing but, devastatiing to declarer or the defense?

 wyman, on 2012-May-04, 09:48, said:

Also, he rates to not have a heart void when he leads the 3.


 rbforster, on 2012-May-20, 21:04, said:

Besides playing for fun, most people also like to play bridge to win


My YouTube Channel
0

#23 User is offline   rduran1216 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 815
  • Joined: 2009-August-31

Posted 2011-June-10, 15:26

View PostHanoi5, on 2011-June-10, 10:23, said:

Devastating. I hope it's not a language/logic thing but, devastatiing to declarer or the defense?


declarer has

Q109xx
AQxx
J
Axx
Aaron Jones Unit 557

www.longbeachbridge.com
0

#24 User is offline   hatchett 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 589
  • Joined: 2005-November-02
  • Location:Moldova

Posted 2011-June-10, 16:43

View Postrduran1216, on 2011-June-10, 15:26, said:

declarer has

Q109xx
AQxx
J
Axx



Seems to me that both a lead and a lead mean one off if that was the layout.
0

#25 User is offline   benlessard 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 3,465
  • Joined: 2006-January-07
  • Location:Montreal Canada
  • Interests:All games. i really mean all of them.

Posted 2011-June-10, 17:49

If 1Nt is forcing it mean responder can easily have just 4H and extra value wich make a H lead clearcut. If 1Nt is not forcing then i responder is almost sure to have 5H wich mean a club lead is probably as good as a trumps. Your hoping partner got a slow trick in club that will disappear on the 4 or 5th spades.

Just saw that its a passed hand so im leading clubs.
From Psych "I mean, Gus and I never see eye-to-eye on work stuff.
For instance, he doesn't like being used as a human shield when we're being shot at.
I happen to think it's a very noble way to meet one's maker, especially for a guy like him.
Bottom line is we never let that difference of opinion interfere with anything."
0

#26 User is offline   dake50 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 2,211
  • Joined: 2006-April-22

Posted 2011-June-10, 19:54

D-x to partner's D-Kx, back to my D-AQ,
D-out for trump promote or wait for S-K wins.
0

#27 User is offline   gnasher 

  • Andy Bowles
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 11,993
  • Joined: 2007-May-03
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London, UK

Posted 2011-June-11, 00:41

View Posthatchett, on 2011-June-10, 16:43, said:

Seems to me that both a lead and a lead mean one off if that was the layout.


Declarer wins the club lead in hand and plays a diamond. If you duck, he wins the king and plays a spade, then crossruffs. If you take the ace of diamonds and play a club or a heart, he wins, cashes K, draws trumps, and concedes a diamond.

On a trump lead, you can afford to duck the diamond, then win the spade continuation and play a second trump. That holds declarer to six trumps and three side winners.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
0

#28 User is offline   hatchett 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 589
  • Joined: 2005-November-02
  • Location:Moldova

Posted 2011-June-11, 03:34

View Postgnasher, on 2011-June-11, 00:41, said:


Declarer wins the club lead in hand and plays a diamond. If you duck, he wins the king and plays a spade, then crossruffs. If you take the ace of diamonds and play a club or a heart, he wins, cashes K, draws trumps, and concedes a diamond.

On a trump lead, you can afford to duck the diamond, then win the spade continuation and play a second trump. That holds declarer to six trumps and three side winners.


Oh yes didn't notice the strong pips in dummy, but now you can make 10 tricks on both a and a lead. If you get a trump lead, simply run the J
0

#29 User is offline   hatchett 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 589
  • Joined: 2005-November-02
  • Location:Moldova

Posted 2011-June-11, 03:34

View Postgnasher, on 2011-June-11, 00:41, said:


Declarer wins the club lead in hand and plays a diamond. If you duck, he wins the king and plays a spade, then crossruffs. If you take the ace of diamonds and play a club or a heart, he wins, cashes K, draws trumps, and concedes a diamond.

On a trump lead, you can afford to duck the diamond, then win the spade continuation and play a second trump. That holds declarer to six trumps and three side winners.


Oh yes didn't notice the strong pips in dummy, but now you can make 10 tricks on both a and a lead. If you get a trump lead, simply run the J
0

#30 User is offline   hatchett 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 589
  • Joined: 2005-November-02
  • Location:Moldova

Posted 2011-June-11, 03:34

View Postgnasher, on 2011-June-11, 00:41, said:


Declarer wins the club lead in hand and plays a diamond. If you duck, he wins the king and plays a spade, then crossruffs. If you take the ace of diamonds and play a club or a heart, he wins, cashes K, draws trumps, and concedes a diamond.

On a trump lead, you can afford to duck the diamond, then win the spade continuation and play a second trump. That holds declarer to six trumps and three side winners.


Oh yes didn't notice the strong pips in dummy, but now you can make 10 tricks on both a and a lead. If you get a trump lead, simply run the J
0

#31 User is offline   gnasher 

  • Andy Bowles
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 11,993
  • Joined: 2007-May-03
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London, UK

Posted 2011-June-11, 03:44

View Posthatchett, on 2011-June-11, 03:34, said:

Oh yes didn't notice the strong pips in dummy, but now you can make 10 tricks on both a and a lead. If you get a trump lead, simply run the J


I don't see how that helps. As soon as the defence win a spade trick, they'll play another trump. Doesn't that hold declarer to six trumps, two clubs and one diamond?
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
0

#32 User is offline   hatchett 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 589
  • Joined: 2005-November-02
  • Location:Moldova

Posted 2011-June-11, 03:51

View Postgnasher, on 2011-June-11, 03:44, said:

I don't see how that helps. As soon as the defence win a spade trick, they'll play another trump. Doesn't that hold declarer to six trumps, two clubs and one diamond?


No. How are you planning to stop declarer building a second trick?
0

#33 User is offline   MrAce 

  • VIP Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 6,971
  • Joined: 2009-November-14
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Houston, TX

Posted 2011-June-11, 03:53

View Postgnasher, on 2011-June-11, 00:41, said:


Declarer wins the club lead in hand and plays a diamond. If you duck, he wins the king and plays a spade, then crossruffs. If you take the ace of diamonds and play a club or a heart, he wins, cashes K, draws trumps, and concedes a diamond.

On a trump lead, you can afford to duck the diamond, then win the spade continuation and play a second trump. That holds declarer to six trumps and three side winners.



Andy....with all due respect, what happens with the defense you suggest, if declarer has the A and pd A ? :)
"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity has no such boundaries!"
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"

"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."





0

#34 User is offline   gnasher 

  • Andy Bowles
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 11,993
  • Joined: 2007-May-03
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London, UK

Posted 2011-June-11, 04:28

View Posthatchett, on 2011-June-11, 03:51, said:

No. How are you planning to stop declarer building a second trick?

I'm not sure exactly what sequence of plays you have in mind, but after J, spade, trump, K to the ace, we play K, spade. If he plays another diamond immediately, East ruffs; if he draws the trump first we can cash another spade.

It's true, I think, that declarer can make by playing J, K, K, but I'm not sure why he would play this way.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
0

#35 User is offline   gnasher 

  • Andy Bowles
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 11,993
  • Joined: 2007-May-03
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London, UK

Posted 2011-June-11, 04:48

MrAce said:

Andy....with all due respect, what happens with the defense you suggest, if declarer has the A and pd A ?

Partner has had a chance to give suit preference in trumps at trick one, so we might have some idea.

But anyway, if declarer has AQxxx AQxx J xxx and we duck, it's not clear that he's going to make. He might put the king up and take a spade finesse, or even if he runs J he might now play a club.

(Sorry about the nonsense I posted in an earlier version of this post - too early in the morning.)
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
0

#36 User is offline   hatchett 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 589
  • Joined: 2005-November-02
  • Location:Moldova

Posted 2011-June-11, 05:38

View Postgnasher, on 2011-June-11, 04:28, said:

I'm not sure exactly what sequence of plays you have in mind, but after J, spade, trump, K to the ace, we play K, spade. If he plays another diamond immediately, East ruffs; if he draws the trump first we can cash another spade.

It's true, I think, that declarer can make by playing J, K, K, but I'm not sure why he would play this way.


I play your first line, when east ruffs the , he can't play a without setting up a trick, so win the in hand, ruff a and concede a to west who has no more .
0

#37 User is offline   gnasher 

  • Andy Bowles
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 11,993
  • Joined: 2007-May-03
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London, UK

Posted 2011-June-11, 05:54

OK, I think I understand: you mean trump, J, spade, trump, K to A, K, spade ruff, diamond ruffed and overuffed, spade ruff, diamond exit?

I agree that works, but it's also not a very credible line.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
0

#38 User is offline   hatchett 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 589
  • Joined: 2005-November-02
  • Location:Moldova

Posted 2011-June-11, 06:06

View Postgnasher, on 2011-June-11, 05:54, said:

OK, I think I understand: you mean trump, J, spade, trump, K to A, K, spade ruff, diamond ruffed and overuffed, spade ruff, diamond exit?

I agree that works, but it's also not a very credible line.


You can discard a when the is ruffed, this is better I think, if East started with three s . I'm not sure why
it's not credible a line you need to set up two additional tricks in either s or s and running the J is not an unreasonable way to start the suit.
0

#39 User is offline   gnasher 

  • Andy Bowles
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 11,993
  • Joined: 2007-May-03
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London, UK

Posted 2011-June-11, 06:48

View Posthatchett, on 2011-June-11, 06:06, said:

You can discard a when the is ruffed, this is better I think, if East started with three s .

Maybe we're talking about two different lines? I think you've already lost a spade and A, and you've already thrown your club loser on the second round of diamonds.

Actually, in the position I think you're in (after trump lead, J, spade, trump, K to A, K, spade ruff, diamond) there's another, simpler way for declarer to make: just overruff and set the spades up by ruffing, with A as an entry for casing the long one. This is an unusual variation on the "reserve trumps" theme: declarer draws East's trump by leading a loser through him.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
0

#40 User is offline   hatchett 

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 589
  • Joined: 2005-November-02
  • Location:Moldova

Posted 2011-June-11, 07:21

View Postgnasher, on 2011-June-11, 06:48, said:

Maybe we're talking about two different lines? I think you've already lost a spade and A, and you've already thrown your club loser on the second round of diamonds.

Actually, in the position I think you're in (after trump lead, J, spade, trump, K to A, K, spade ruff, diamond) there's another, simpler way for declarer to make: just overruff and set the spades up by ruffing, with A as an entry for casing the long one. This is an unusual variation on the "reserve trumps" theme: declarer draws East's trump by leading a loser through him.


There are lots of ways you can make, throwing a when the is ruffed, leads to a double squeeze, .
0

  • 3 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

8 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 8 guests, 0 anonymous users