[inquiry]

Scoring: BAM


No opposition bidding.. your auction was...
2D 2S
3N 6C
Pass

Where 2D was either weak two in a major or monster balanced hand. 3NT showed balanced 25-28, and you took a shot at 6C.

This is a hand from BBO Team game

---

Opening lead ♦9. dummy wins ACE. Stipulation for problem, ♦9 is an honest card, and ♦Queen is with EAST.

When considering how to play the club suit, take the entire hand into consideration, for full credit, add to your reply, your line if you have club loser, and your line if you avoid a club loser.

Ben

[flytoox]

Even you get the club queen right, you still need H 33 or spade king on side. So the key to the play of this hand is to finesse Spade queen early. I will return to the hand with club ace, then finesse sq. If it loses to east, hope d is not 61. And then you finees west for club queen.

A trap here is to finesse club queen immediately after returning to hand with club ace. If club is 2-2, and east has the queen, then he will throw out with a h and u will be locked in dummy. So finessing spade queen first is corrct for the communication reason.

[Free]

♣ to the K, and finesse ♣ if necessary.

If we lose a ♣ I'll need the ♠ finesse to discard a ♥ in my hand and ruff the ♥s free so I can discard my losing ♦ on the 4th ♥ (♥ need to be 3-3 in that case).
If we don't lose a ♣ it depends on the situation, what cards are fallen, and what my best feeling is

[hrothgar]

inquiry, on Sep 30 2004, 04:48 PM, said:

Scoring: BAM


No opposition bidding.. your auction was...
2D 2S
3N 6C
Pass

Where 2D was either weak two in a major or monster balanced hand. 3NT showed balanced 25-28, and you took a shot at 6C.

This is a hand from BBO Team game

---

Opening lead ♦9. dummy wins ACE. Stipulation for problem, ♦9 is an honest card, and ♦Queen is with EAST.

When considering how to play the club suit, take the entire hand into consideration, for full credit, add to your reply, your line if you have club loser, and your line if you avoid a club loser.

Ben

Nearly anytime that I need to play a suit in this situation I follow and old Bols bridge tip from Zia.

Lead the Jack of Clubs, if LHO doesn't cover, rise with the King and finesse RHO for the Queen.

I prefer to attack Clubs immediately. Good thinks always seem to happen when I get to run a 6 card suit. I know that I can throw in RHO whenever I want. If I can get the opponents to discard enough Hearts, I might be able to get an Heart Spade endplay going....

[flytoox]

hrothgar, on Sep 30 2004, 03:35 PM, said:

inquiry, on Sep 30 2004, 04:48 PM, said:

Scoring: BAM


No opposition bidding.. your auction was...
2D 2S
3N 6C
Pass

Where 2D was either weak two in a major or monster balanced hand. 3NT showed balanced 25-28, and you took a shot at 6C.

This is a hand from BBO Team game

---

Opening lead ♦9. dummy wins ACE. Stipulation for problem, ♦9 is an honest card, and ♦Queen is with EAST.

When considering how to play the club suit, take the entire hand into consideration, for full credit, add to your reply, your line if you have club loser, and your line if you avoid a club loser.

Ben

Nearly anytime that I need to play a suit in this situation I follow and old Bols bridge tip from Zia.

Lead the Jack of Clubs, if LHO doesn't cover, rise with the King and finesse RHO for the Queen.

I prefer to attack Clubs immediately. Good thinks always seem to happen when I get to run a 6 card suit. I know that I can throw in RHO whenever I want. If I can get the opponents to discard enough Hearts, I might be able to get an Heart Spade endplay going....

The problem with this is that you dont have this luxury. you have to lead from dummy not your hand. So Zia's trick wont work here.

[jillybean]

hrothgar, on Sep 30 2004, 08:35 AM, said:

Lead the Jack of Clubs, if LHO doesn't cover, rise with the King and finesse RHO for the Queen.

I like it!
Safer than playing for the 2-2 drop, if West has the Q they should cover the J?

jillybean

[inquiry]

Summary so far....

Flytoox tries spade hook first (not entirely sure how spade hook winning suggest hook or drop in clubs). Even if spade hook wins, you have potential heart and trump loser.

Free is playing low the the club King and then finessing WEST for club queen (playing for 3-1 with west long). If club hook loses, he is going for 3-3 hearts to win 5C, 2S, 2D, and 3H. This line requires (after losing club), 3-3 hearts and spade king on side.

Richard has quoted the lead the jack and if not covered go up with the King and finessee on the way back. I think Flytoox was right in poiting out that he is not in his hand for this play. But the message was enjoyed by Jillybean who hadn't heard fo this ploy. I actually prefer the alternative against most players (but not good players).. of leadign the jack and if the next hand breaks tempo, go up with the dummy honor and hook on the way back. But if the next hand plays low quickly and without apparent concern, let the jack ride... that is another famous saying, along the lines of "he who hesitates hasn't got it".

I think (hope? Believe? know?) that this hand is much deeper than any of these answers so far.

Ben

[flytoox]

Ben, maybe i didnt put it clearly, but I didnt mean wining or losing the spade finesse will affect club play. I am planning to finess club queen against west always. The reason I choose to finesse spade queen first is for the communication consideration.

Actually, the first plan came up in my mind is exactly same as Free's. But the problem is if club is 2-2, and the finesse loses to east, then you are locked in dummy.

Another play is to finesse club jack immediately in 2nd round. This has two merits. One is you wont give a ruff in D. Another is by finessing you established two entries to hand, which you need to finesse spade later.

[jtfanclub]

inquiry, on Sep 30 2004, 08:48 AM, said:

Scoring: BAM


No opposition bidding.. your auction was...
2D 2S
3N 6C
Pass

Where 2D was either weak two in a major or monster balanced hand. 3NT showed balanced 25-28, and you took a shot at 6C.

This is a hand from BBO Team game

---

Opening lead ♦9. dummy wins ACE. Stipulation for problem, ♦9 is an honest card, and ♦Queen is with EAST.

When considering how to play the club suit, take the entire hand into consideration, for full credit, add to your reply, your line if you have club loser, and your line if you avoid a club loser.

Ben

How cute is this hand?

Since I'm pretending to be an expert for this, I'll make a pretending-to-be-expert play. HA, KA of clubs. If the Q drops, finesse the H. East is likely forced to give me my thirteenth trick.

If E has the CQ, SQA (discard a H) ruff (if the spade finesse doesn't work, stop reading), KH ruff. If H split 3-3 I'm good, if they split 4 with W having 4 E has nothing left but diamonds so I can throw him in with the QC to get my diamond trick. I don't think E can have 4 hearts at this point...that gives 1 club, 2 diamonds, two hearts and...eight spades for W? That seems unlikely, somehow.

If W has the CQ, same play, but if the H don't split 3-3 I'm screwed. Such is life.

[flytoox]

Maybe Ben's deeper hint implies that opener should not have c q, coz he leads short d, looking for ruff. If he has c qxx, he may attack other suit, seeking to establish a side trick.

[inquiry]

flytoox, on Sep 30 2004, 03:44 PM, said:

Maybe Ben's deeper hint implies that opener should not have c q, coz he leads short d, looking for ruff. If he has c qxx, he may attack other suit, seeking to establish a side trick.

Or maybe it is in a problem trying to entice a helpful cover from Qx or Qxx isn't gong to work. you are going to have to excerice the little grey cells rather than playing by rote from some old boles tip.
:-)

[pclayton]

If I had about 3 hours; I could fully anaylyze this one. This problem is a lot like Pavlicek's play and defense problems. If you're a decent player, you should be able to figure most of them out; perhaps not perfectly, after an extended period of time. I have tremendous respect for those who ace the problems, no matter how much time is granted, since they are so tough. I still spent a good 90 minutes on this one mulling it over in my head. I will admit my first reaction was to cash the K♣, A♣.

However, I have serious doubts that even world class players can get problems like Ben's and Pavliceks right on a consistent basis at the table. The amount of time needed to analyze all of the perforations isn't available. Nevertheless, I love trying to solve problems like this, and I think they add to your overall knowledge of logical bridge play.
___________________________________

Wiith that being said: We have 10 tricks off the top with the diamond finesse now marked as wrong. Even if we get the club suit correct, we'll still need to find 3-3 hearts or the spade hook right. To use a few terms from Fred Karpin, we need to 'eschelon' our plays correctly to combine all of our chances. Further, this hand has an 'avoidance' element in it as well.

With one unusual exception (see footnote below), I will need to take the spade finesse . So, I'm crossing to hand with the A♣ at T2 to take the spade hook. Whether or not it wins will determine the rest of my play. Lets be generous and say it wins. Now, I cash the A♠, pitching a heart., and playing A-K♥. I do not ruff a heart at this point, because I don't want an overruff by LHO if RHO has 4 (I fully realize that I need to pick up the trump suit if RHO has 4 hearts, since a red suit squeeze will not operate against RHO, but I can't lose to Q, Qx or Qxx on my left with an overruff).

Now I'm almost home. Ruff a spade to hand and play J♣, hooking to the supposed Qx. If RHO holds xx of hearts, he's endplayed. If RHO holds 3 hearts, he has to play one and the suit will set up. If RHO has 4 hearts, I think I'm down whatever I do.; any squeeze against RHO is isometric.

If the spade hook loses, I need to pick up the trump (get your water witch out), and hope for 3-3 hearts. I can manage my entries easily enough, since RHO can't attack the diamond suit at T3.

I'm not going to calculate the %'s of this play, but it seems pretty good. I'll be interested to find out if there is a better answer.

Footnote: What I said about not taking the spade finesse is this: If you play RHO for specifically 2 hearts, you can win the diamond at T1, cash the AK♥ and play A♣, J♣, looking to endplay RHO with Qx of clubs. But this play loses whenever RHO has 3 hearts, so this is out.

This post has been edited by pclayton: 2004-September-30, 16:30

[flytoox]

pclayton, on Sep 30 2004, 09:51 PM, said:

If I had about 3 hours; I could fully anaylyze this one. This problem is a lot like Pavlicek's play and defense problems. If you're a decent player, you should be able to figure most of them out; perhaps not perfectly, after an extended period of time. I have tremendous respect for those who ace the problems, no matter how much time is granted, since they are so tough. I still spent a good 90 minutes on this one mulling it over in my head. I will admit my first reaction was to cash the K♣, A♣.

However, I have serious doubts that even world class players can get problems like Ben's and Pavliceks right on a consistent basis at the table. The amount of time needed to analyze all of the perforations isn't available. Nevertheless, I love trying to solve problems like this, and I think they add to your overall knowledge of logical bridge play.
___________________________________

Wiith that being said: We have 10 tricks off the top with the diamond finesse now marked as wrong. Even if we get the club suit correct, we'll still need to find 3-3 hearts or the spade hook right. To use a few terms from Fred Karpin, we need to 'eschelon' our plays correctly to combine all of our chances. Further, this hand has an 'avoidance' element in it as well.

With one unusual exception (see footnote below), I will need to take the spade finesse . So, I'm crossing to hand with the A♣ at T2 to take the spade hook. Whether or not it wins will determine the rest of my play. Lets be generous and say it wins. Now, I cash the A♠, pitching a heart., and playing A-K♥. I do not ruff a heart at this point, because I don't want an overruff by LHO if RHO has 4 (I fully realize that I need to pick up the trump suit if RHO has 4 hearts, since a red suit squeeze will not operate against RHO, but I can't lose to Q, Qx or Qxx on my left with an overruff).

Now I'm almost home. Ruff a spade to hand and play A♣, J♣, hooking to the supposed Qx. If RHO holds xx of hearts, he's endplayed. If RHO holds 3 hearts, he has to play one and the suit will set up. If RHO has 4 hearts, I think I'm down whatever I do.; any squeeze against RHO is isometric.

If the spade hook loses, I need to pick up the trump (get your water witch out), and hope for 3-3 hearts. I can manage my entries easily enough, since RHO can't attack the diamond suit at T3.

I'm not going to calculate the %'s of this play, but it seems pretty good. I'll be interested to find out if there is a better answer.

Footnote: What I said about not taking the spade finesse is this: If you play RHO for specifically 2 hearts, you can win the diamond at T1, cash the AK♥ and play A♣, J♣, looking to endplay RHO with Qx of clubs. But this play loses whenever RHO has 3 hearts, so this is out.

u cant play club ace twice:) and u will know at trick 2 if club is 4-0 or not. other than that, the point about playing spade first is a good one(coz this is same as mine:))

[pclayton]

Of course - (I edited the post). Run the JC at T7 if the Spade Hook wins. Of course it doesnt affect the content of the answer .

[luke warm]

wooooo hoooooooo i love being on pain pills

i'd play the ♣K, a ♣to the A... i hope they split 2/2, so i can duck a heart hopefully throwing east in... he returns a heart, naturally... i win the A, take the ♠A & ♦A, and lead a club to my hand and run a few

i'm thinking the end is

---

i think i can throw the ♦J on one club and squeeze west in spades and hearts and east in diamonds and hearts.. i'm hoping west comes down to ♠K and 2 hearts, east to ♦Q and 2 hearts

yeah i know, all my eggts in the '9 never' basket (if it even works then)

[jtfanclub]

pclayton, on Sep 30 2004, 04:51 PM, said:

Now I'm almost home. Ruff a spade to hand and play J♣, hooking to the supposed Qx.

If he has Qxx, you can't squeeze him any more. If you play the K when West showed out, then he can escape with a spade. If you duck to the Q, he can escape with a club.

If you wait to take the spade finesse, you can trap him even if the clubs break 3-1.

[pclayton]

jtfanclub, on Sep 30 2004, 05:39 PM, said:

pclayton, on Sep 30 2004, 04:51 PM, said:

Now I'm almost home. Ruff a spade to hand and play J♣, hooking to the supposed Qx.

If he has Qxx, you can't squeeze him any more. If you play the K when West showed out, then he can escape with a spade. If you duck to the Q, he can escape with a club.

If you wait to take the spade finesse, you can trap him even if the clubs break 3-1.

Matthew - I don;t think I suggested a squeeze on this layout. As my footnote indicates, the only way not taking the spade hook wins is to cash 2 hearts prior to the spade play; else RHO can exit a heart later.

On my line, if the spade hook wins, and RHO turns up with Qxx of clubs, I can still make the hand by winning the K♣, and ruffing a heart. I'm OK if RHO has 3-2-5-3 or 3-3-4-3.

[Flame]

If i finnese imidiatly it would be Finnesing LHO (A then J)
this is because RHO cant play diamond, and also because of the lead.
But this isnt my line.
I play the A of club, then finnese spade if it works, i play A of spade discarding a heart, then AK heart, s[pade ruff in hand, then J club, if west play club i put small.
Now i made it unless east has 4 hearts.
I think the lead increase the chances of west having something in the other suits which increase the chances of my line.
n/b only really bad players would cover with Qxx, so its nearly hopeless to play J and hope something good happend.

[junyi_zhu]

Flame, on Oct 1 2004, 07:10 PM, said:

If i finnese imidiatly it would be Finnesing LHO (A then J)
this is because RHO cant play diamond, and also because of the lead.
But this isnt my line.
I play the A of club, then finnese spade if it works, i play A of spade discarding a heart, then AK heart, s[pade ruff in hand, then J club, if west play club i put small.
Now i made it unless east has 4 hearts.
I think the lead increase the chances of west having something in the other suits which increase the chances of my line.
n/b only really bad players would cover with Qxx, so its nearly hopeless to play J and hope something good happend.

yes, this is also the line I choose.

[luke warm]

Flame, on Oct 1 2004, 09:10 PM, said:

~snip~
n/b only really bad players would cover with Qxx, so its nearly hopeless to play J and hope something good happend.

it doesn't really matter if they cover or not, if you've made up your mind to either finesse on the way back or play for the drop, nothing's lost by the play...