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Pa-1♦-1♠-2♥
2♠-Pa*-Pa-3♥**
Pa-???
2♥ is 11+ (10+ also possible I suppose or is FG playable there?)
Is the Pass over 2♠ forcing? What would double show?
Is 3♥ forcing? Are there hands where responder is just 'competing'? How do you manage those (in case 3♥ is not forcing)?
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How forcing is this? 2/1 context
#1
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Posted 2012-January-09, 20:15
wyman, on 2012-May-04, 09:48, said:
Also, he rates to not have a heart void when he leads the ♥3.
rbforster, on 2012-May-20, 21:04, said:
Besides playing for fun, most people also like to play bridge to win
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#2
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Posted 2012-January-09, 22:47
I would not play 2♥ as FG here. The pass over 2♠ is not forcing. Double would show diamonds and clubs and not quite enough to bid unilaterally. 3♥ is not forcing, it shows extra heart length and probably a decent suit. If responder wants to force he can bid 3♠. My opinions, anyway.
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#3
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Posted 2012-January-09, 23:07
What would opener do with a minimum opener with 4=1=4=4 or similar shapes? Presumably make a non-forcing pass of 2♠. X by opener would likely show minors, and no spade stop. By the heart bidder in the balancing seat it would be a DSIP type X, possibly with tolerance for a pass while not being penalty. 3♥ is not forcing. 3♠ is pretty much the only forcing bid.
#4
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Posted 2012-January-10, 01:21
One possibility is to play 2NT here as lebensohl. In that case 3H would be forcing; the weaker hands going via 2NT.
Without that gadget I guess 3H is NF. With a force responder could have bid a new suit or 3S.
Without that gadget I guess 3H is NF. With a force responder could have bid a new suit or 3S.
#5
- Csaba the Hutt
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Posted 2012-January-10, 01:59
Not forcing at all. In fact I think opener will pass most often. Could 2NT here* be played also as a good 3♥ bid? I think so. I'm still trying to find that thread where I suggested such a usage (suggested some general rules upon which gnasher improved in said thread).
*instead of 3♥.
*instead of 3♥.
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
George Carlin
George Carlin
#6
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Posted 2012-January-10, 05:04
How do you propose the bidding to continue?
wyman, on 2012-May-04, 09:48, said:
Also, he rates to not have a heart void when he leads the ♥3.
rbforster, on 2012-May-20, 21:04, said:
Besides playing for fun, most people also like to play bridge to win
My YouTube Channel
#7
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Posted 2012-January-10, 10:52
Bidding is not an exact science. Missing this game is normal, I think.
#8
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Posted 2012-January-11, 07:10
Hi,
#1 playing 2H as GF is certainly possible, but I doubt it is standard.
Most would play a 2H forcing as either promising another call or just round forcing.
#2 Pass over 2S should be forcing, if 2H was at least promising another bid, if 2H
was just round forcing, ... I still would play Pass as forcing.
Espesially, if you play X of 2S as T/O, and the frequency for a T/O will still be higher,
than the frequency for a penalty double.
#3 Unless 2H was GF, 3H is NF.
#4 Missing this one is normal. You have no wastage what soever.
#5 We play 2NT over 2S as Good-Bad.
With kind regards
Marlowe
#1 playing 2H as GF is certainly possible, but I doubt it is standard.
Most would play a 2H forcing as either promising another call or just round forcing.
#2 Pass over 2S should be forcing, if 2H was at least promising another bid, if 2H
was just round forcing, ... I still would play Pass as forcing.
Espesially, if you play X of 2S as T/O, and the frequency for a T/O will still be higher,
than the frequency for a penalty double.
#3 Unless 2H was GF, 3H is NF.
#4 Missing this one is normal. You have no wastage what soever.
#5 We play 2NT over 2S as Good-Bad.
With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
#9
- World International Master without a clue
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Posted 2012-January-11, 08:30
2♥ is forcing, so IMO pass of 2♠ is forcing too, and pass of anything below 3♦ would be forcing as well.
#10
- Andy Bowles
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Posted 2012-January-11, 09:35
If East bids 3♥, I think West should raise to game. xxx KQJxxx xx Kx might be enough.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
#11
- hooked
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Posted 2012-January-11, 09:52
Quote
How do you propose the bidding to continue?
West should pass, East will bid 3♥ and West can raise to game.
"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly." MikeH
"100% certain that many excellent players would disagree. This is far more about style/judgment than right vs. wrong." Fred
"100% certain that many excellent players would disagree. This is far more about style/judgment than right vs. wrong." Fred
#12
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Posted 2012-January-11, 10:04
Certainly 3♥ is not forcing under normal 2/1 agreements. Most follow the meta rule that in a competitive 2/1 auction, responders second bid is not forcing if he a) rebids his suit, b) returns to openers suit, or c) bids 2NT.
As for missing this particular game, no big deal. I suppose Opener could make an inspired raise to 4, but no one would shoot him if he didn't. It's a 21 point game where neither player has a Queen or Jack and every single high card is working overtime. That's impossible to judge accurately. (note that you still require a 3-2 trump split, it's only a ~68% game).
As for missing this particular game, no big deal. I suppose Opener could make an inspired raise to 4, but no one would shoot him if he didn't. It's a 21 point game where neither player has a Queen or Jack and every single high card is working overtime. That's impossible to judge accurately. (note that you still require a 3-2 trump split, it's only a ~68% game).
If no one comes from the future to stop you from doing it then how bad a decision could it really be?
#13
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Posted 2012-January-12, 00:37
I usually play 3♥ as "almost forcing". That means partner should raise game unless he has a misfit (void ♥) minimum.
#14
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Posted 2012-January-12, 01:39
I dont get it.....are you guys really bidding gamehere.....
for nonexperts getting to 3h seems hard...and a guess ....
I guess I would bid 3 /2
for nonexperts getting to 3h seems hard...and a guess ....
I guess I would bid 3 /2
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