xxx Qxx AKQJTxx void
#1
Posted 2012-May-01, 11:11
1) GF artificial relay with 2C
2) sign off in 4S
3) splinter
Systemically, I can't show diamonds. I chose to splinter. Interested in what others would do.
#2
Posted 2012-May-01, 11:21
Winner - BBO Challenge bracket #6 - February, 2017.
#3
Posted 2012-May-01, 11:22
ahydra
#4
Posted 2012-May-01, 11:34
Phil, on 2012-May-01, 11:21, said:
Good luck designing a relay system where you can find shape and honors up to jacks below 4S.
- hrothgar
#5
Posted 2012-May-01, 11:42
han, on 2012-May-01, 11:34, said:
Then I assume we can get controls and shape under 4♠?
I'd still go.
Winner - BBO Challenge bracket #6 - February, 2017.
#6
Posted 2012-May-01, 11:50
#7
Posted 2012-May-01, 11:58
I suspect that going the full relay will mean committing to at least 5♠ if we find the spade AK and the heart A, regardless of shape.
Having played a relay method, I know that one of the issues is that partner's responses, with extreme shape, usually have to be very space consuming.....
Does the relay go shape, then controls, then location of cards? Do we always define exact shape, and how many relays are needed? Can we skip exact shape to got to controls? How do we show location?
How do we break the relay, and what inferences are available to opener when we do?
Based on what I know, I'd at least start with the relay.
BTW, while I ask all these questions, I am not inviting a detailed reply....I have zero interest in your actual system, since I don't plan on playing a big club anytime soon.
#8
Posted 2012-May-01, 12:20
Phil, on 2012-May-01, 11:21, said:
Yeah, but that example hand has 8 QPs (A=3, K=2, Q=1) and I have only 7 QPs for a total of 15 out of 24 QPs.
Partner could potentially have Jxxxx xxx x AKQJ and open 1S.
I don't know of a relay system that could disambiguate this before 4S has been passed. One needs more stuff.
On this hand, I want to tell partner 1) source of tricks 2) void and 3) fit but have no good way to do so.
I listed 2C GF relay, but I don't care for that. I think I'd get more info out of RKC (and that's more obviously poor). For me the choice is between a splinter (lying about trump support) or giving up and bidding 4S (partner doesn't have the cards I need).
#9
Posted 2012-May-01, 13:07
Phil, on 2012-May-01, 11:42, said:
How does that help you? You gave partner zero points in clubs, no way you can know close to that with relays unless it is much too late.
- hrothgar
#10
Posted 2012-May-01, 13:17
han, on 2012-May-01, 13:07, said:
True - maybe one round of denial cue bidding could tell us no club wastage.
Winner - BBO Challenge bracket #6 - February, 2017.
#11
Posted 2012-May-01, 13:22
straube, on 2012-May-01, 11:11, said:
Really? This may be the system flaw of all time.
What is baby oil made of?
#12
Posted 2012-May-01, 13:56
ggwhiz, on 2012-May-01, 13:22, said:
I don't count it as such. We have pretty much the same problem with other relayers who start 1C (16+) and then partner starts to show a potentially 5332 hand...which sucks when opener has a distributional hand.
I know that some play early relay breaks to show a void. Is anyone familiar with how that works? That would be 1S-2C, 2D-break...but I don't know the continuations.
#13
Posted 2012-May-02, 20:14
#14
Posted 2012-May-02, 22:24
straube, on 2012-May-01, 13:56, said:
I know that some play early relay breaks to show a void. Is anyone familiar with how that works? That would be 1S-2C, 2D-break...but I don't know the continuations.
Make the continuations up yourself. There is not a lot published about relay breaks. We did the following:
1C 1H Shows S)
break - now showed the suit that responder bid, not showed. It also showed a min C opening. This doesn't help you much though.
You could also hit one relay and then set S at a low level with KC
eg
1S 2C
2D 2S
#15
Posted 2012-May-02, 22:44
#16
Posted 2012-May-03, 13:36
Even if you relay first it doesn´t mean you cannot break does it?, in my system after 2♣ I can bid GF 3 diamonds, I have another option using keycard for spades and then showing the void but that would most likelly end up at the 5 level so its worse than splinter.
For me the perfect hand is not AK of hearts, its AKQ of spades with singleton heart.