[bixby]

Club game, ACBL jurisdiction.

In the course of the auction, my LHO made a bid that my RHO alerted. But RHO alerted very quietly, and I suspected (correctly, as it later turned out) that my partner had not heard the alert.

I wanted to say, before my partner called, "Partner, did you hear that alert?" But on a previous occasion I had been reprimanded by a Director for calling attention to an irregularity in the auction when it was not my turn to call.

So if RHO alerts, but I suspect that my partner has not heard the alert, am I permitted to take any steps to ensure that my partner has heard the alert before he calls?

[blackshoe]

No.

[AlexJonson]

 bixby, on 2012-June-21, 14:58, said:

Club game, ACBL jurisdiction.

In the course of the auction, my LHO made a bid that my RHO alerted. But RHO alerted very quietly, and I suspected (correctly, as it later turned out) that my partner had not heard the alert.

I wanted to say, before my partner called, "Partner, did you hear that alert?" But on a previous occasion I had been reprimanded by a Director for calling attention to an irregularity in the auction when it was not my turn to call.

So if RHO alerts, but I suspect that my partner has not heard the alert, am I permitted to take any steps to ensure that my partner has heard the alert before he calls?

Did you suspect your partner wasn't paying attention.

[jeffford76]

 bixby, on 2012-June-21, 14:58, said:

So if RHO alerts, but I suspect that my partner has not heard the alert, am I permitted to take any steps to ensure that my partner has heard the alert before he calls?

I'm assuming from this that they didn't display an alert card or tap an alert strip. So, yes.

9A says "any player may draw attention to an irregularity during the auction period, whether or not it is his turn to call".

The player has committed an irregularity by not following the ACBL alert procedure.

[mrdct]

It's the alerter's responsibility to ensure that his opponents have heard the alert, so if you partner didn't hear it and your side is damaged, you will be entitled to an adjusted score.

[blackshoe]

 jeffford76, on 2012-June-21, 16:16, said:

I'm assuming from this that they didn't display an alert card or tap an alert strip. So, yes.

9A says "any player may draw attention to an irregularity during the auction period, whether or not it is his turn to call".

The player has committed an irregularity by not following the ACBL alert procedure.

You are right that failure to display the alert card or tap an alert strip is an irregularity. However, you are assuming facts not in evidence.

[joostb1]

 blackshoe, on 2012-June-21, 15:10, said:

No.

A straightforward answer. But what can you do? If you have reason to believe that your partner hasn't heard or seen the alert, the alerter should also have noticed that, since the ACBL procedure, like many others, states "IT IS THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE ALERTER ... TO ENSURE THAT THE OPPONENTS ARE AWARE THAT AN ALERT HAS BEEN MADE". Should you just go on in the knowledge that the bidding on your side will go off the rails, because your bid will be misunderstood by your partner and there will be probably an UI case because of your alerting your partners response which will wake him? Or should you call the director and point out that your opponent didn't ensure that the opponents were aware that an alert had been made?

[bixby]

My partner was paying full attention. RHO didn't tap the alert strip or bring out the alert card. He said "alert" but it just happened that he shifted his weight as he did so, turned his head slightly, said it in my direction, and said it very quietly. I'm sure it wasn't intentional or anything, but the manner in which it happened was such that I barely heard it and I suspected (correctly) that partner hadn't heard it at all.

For purposes of the question, rather than impugning my partner, let's just assume that RHO's alert was such as to give me reasonable grounds to suspect that my partner hadn't heard it.

I agree that after all was over the Director could award an adjusted score if we were damaged, but that strikes me as an inferior solution. Better to prevent the need for an adjusted score, I would think.

So the question is, if RHO commits an irregularity by alerting in such a way that my partner may not have heard, can I ask partner if he heard the alert?

[Zelandakh]

If you feel the need to do anything here it would be better to ask your opponent "I'm sorry, was that an alert?" or words to that effect. Others will point out that this could be against the rules - both asking a question for partner's benefit and out of turn. It is nonetheless better than asking your partner imho, and is probably legal anyway on the "draw attention to an irregularity" clause. I am a little confused why an oral alert is being given in a game played with bidding boxes. I know a lot of strange things are normal in ACBLland but this is the first time I heard about this one.

[gordontd]

 blackshoe, on 2012-June-21, 18:26, said:

You are right that failure to display the alert card or tap an alert strip is an irregularity. However, you are assuming facts not in evidence.

Which facts are those?

[bixby]

 Zelandakh, on 2012-June-22, 06:25, said:

If you feel the need to do anything here it would be better to ask your opponent "I'm sorry, was that an alert?" or words to that effect. Others will point out that this could be against the rules - both asking a question for partner's benefit and out of turn. It is nonetheless better than asking your partner imho, and is probably legal anyway on the "draw attention to an irregularity" clause. I am a little confused why an oral alert is being given in a game played with bidding boxes. I know a lot of strange things are normal in ACBLland but this is the first time I heard about this one.

I like this. Perhaps the inquiry could fall under Law 20A -- "A player may require clarification forthwith if he is
in doubt what call has been made." The alert would be regarded as part of the call. And while I know one is not supposed to ask questions for partner's benefit, in all honesty the alert was so quiet that even I was not certain it had been made.

As to your other point, in my area, the requirement of showing the alert card or tapping the alert strip has fallen into disuse. Even though the club at which this incident occurred is quite high level for a club, most players don't do it.

[barmar]

 bixby, on 2012-June-22, 08:17, said:

As to your other point, in my area, the requirement of showing the alert card or tapping the alert strip has fallen into disuse. Even though the club at which this incident occurred is quite high level for a club, most players don't do it.

Maybe this incident will serve to remind the players why they should.

"You may say I'm a dreamer...." -- John Lennon

[blackshoe]

 joostb1, on 2012-June-22, 05:58, said:

A straightforward answer. But what can you do? If you have reason to believe that your partner hasn't heard or seen the alert, the alerter should also have noticed that, since the ACBL procedure, like many others, states "IT IS THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE ALERTER ... TO ENSURE THAT THE OPPONENTS ARE AWARE THAT AN ALERT HAS BEEN MADE". Should you just go on in the knowledge that the bidding on your side will go off the rails, because your bid will be misunderstood by your partner and there will be probably an UI case because of your alerting your partners response which will wake him? Or should you call the director and point out that your opponent didn't ensure that the opponents were aware that an alert had been made?

Quote

Law 9A1: Unless prohibited by law, any player may draw attention to an irregularity during the auction period, whether or not it is his turn to call.

So the Director who berated Bixby for pointing out an irregularity when it wasn't his turn to call was wrong. If it seems that your partner didn't hear an alert, and that your opponents did not exercise due diligence to ensure the alert was heard by both you and your partner, then there has been an irregularity, and you should call the director. However, you should not assume an irregularity has occurred and call the director "just in case", which I have seen some players do. Nor is there any provision in law for asking your partner if he didn't hear the alert.

 bixby, on 2012-June-22, 06:02, said:

My partner was paying full attention. RHO didn't tap the alert strip or bring out the alert card. He said "alert" but it just happened that he shifted his weight as he did so, turned his head slightly, said it in my direction, and said it very quietly. I'm sure it wasn't intentional or anything, but the manner in which it happened was such that I barely heard it and I suspected (correctly) that partner hadn't heard it at all.

For purposes of the question, rather than impugning my partner, let's just assume that RHO's alert was such as to give me reasonable grounds to suspect that my partner hadn't heard it.

I agree that after all was over the Director could award an adjusted score if we were damaged, but that strikes me as an inferior solution. Better to prevent the need for an adjusted score, I would think.

So the question is, if RHO commits an irregularity by alerting in such a way that my partner may not have heard, can I ask partner if he heard the alert?

No, you should call the TD. I know people don't like doing that, but it's his job to deal with these things, not yours.

 Zelandakh, on 2012-June-22, 06:25, said:

If you feel the need to do anything here it would be better to ask your opponent "I'm sorry, was that an alert?" or words to that effect. Others will point out that this could be against the rules - both asking a question for partner's benefit and out of turn. It is nonetheless better than asking your partner imho, and is probably legal anyway on the "draw attention to an irregularity" clause. I am a little confused why an oral alert is being given in a game played with bidding boxes. I know a lot of strange things are normal in ACBLland but this is the first time I heard about this one.

I agree with Zel's first three sentences. As for the fourth, ACBL players are notorious, imo, for an attitude that "I don't have to follow the rules if I don't want to".

 gordontd, on 2012-June-22, 07:37, said:

Which facts are those?

That the alert card was not used and the alert strip not tapped. Note that my post was before Bixby's post (quoted above) in which he said that neither the card nor the strip was used. So now those facts are in evidence.

 bixby, on 2012-June-22, 08:17, said:

I like this. Perhaps the inquiry could fall under Law 20A -- "A player may require clarification forthwith if he is
in doubt what call has been made." The alert would be regarded as part of the call. And while I know one is not supposed to ask questions for partner's benefit, in all honesty the alert was so quiet that even I was not certain it had been made.

As to your other point, in my area, the requirement of showing the alert card or tapping the alert strip has fallen into disuse. Even though the club at which this incident occurred is quite high level for a club, most players don't do it.

That a required procedure has fallen into disuse does not make it no longer required. Unless your club has published a regulation saying this is no longer required, it still is, and failure to do it is an irregularity which may lead to score adjustment or procedural penalties, or both.

This post has been edited by blackshoe: 2012-June-23, 01:39
Reason for edit: Left out a "not" in my first paragraph.

[bluejak]

 bixby, on 2012-June-22, 06:02, said:

So the question is, if RHO commits an irregularity by alerting in such a way that my partner may not have heard, can I ask partner if he heard the alert?

No. You may not communicate with your partner.

You have three possible approaches, two of them legal, one practical.

• You can leave it to the end of the hand and claim damage if necessary
  
• You can call the TD and say that you believe there has been an irregulairty, and leave everything to him
  
• You can ask your opponent "Did you alert that?"

[barmar]

 bluejak, on 2012-June-25, 12:44, said:

• You can ask your opponent "Did you alert that?"

Variation: "What did you say?"

[AlexJonson]

 barmar, on 2012-June-25, 14:16, said:

Variation: "What did you say?"

\you can ask if you thought the opponent was indistinct rather than the alternative (apparently inconceivable or libellous case) that partner wasn't quite with it.

[Sadie3]

I like practical.

[CamHenry]

 barmar, on 2012-June-25, 14:16, said:

Variation: "What did you say?"

I'd be inclined to go for "Sorry, I didn't quite catch that." It's usually true, even though (at 30) I'm younger than the majority of players!

[gnasher]

As David implied, all of these "practical" suggestions are probably also illegal under Law 20G1.

I would simply ask the opponents to alert in the way prescribed by the ACBL regulations, that is by both saying "Alert" and touching the alert strip. Asking the opponents to follow the rules isn't illegal, even though it's for partner's benefit.

I know that once I'd done this everyone should call the director, but at least now we'd all be equally guilty of breaking the rules.

[Vampyr]

 gnasher, on 2012-July-14, 11:59, said:

I would simply ask the opponents to alert in the way prescribed by the ACBL regulations, that is by both saying "Alert" and touching the alert strip. Asking the opponents to follow the rules isn't illegal, even though it's for partner's benefit.

Isn't the alert strip in each player's bidding box? Is touching it something the opponents usually notice?