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Unclear auction EBU, Matchpoints

#21 User is offline   FrancesHinden 

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Posted 2012-August-30, 15:01

I don't think 3H is forcing to most the 'bridge world'. Some of the posters on this thread who think 3H is forcing have got complicated agreements about this auction which include artificial meanings for double, 2S, 2NT and possibly some other calls.
I admit I do too, and with my regular partners 3H is forcing (2S is a 3-suiter with 0 or 1 spade, 2NT lebensohl, double usually balanced sets up a forcing pass may have a penalty double of spades). So for me, I wouldn't pass 3H.

But the real majority of the 'bridge world' don't have these discussions. 2NT is natural showing NT. double shows high cards, maybe 3-4 hearts. 3H shows long hearts. With a better hand with hearts they either bid 4H, or they play in 3H+2 (and I've seen quite a few of the latter).
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#22 User is offline   bluejak 

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Posted 2012-September-07, 16:23

View PostCamHenry, on 2012-August-29, 01:11, said:

None vulnerable, N deals; matchpoints. 2 is alerted; partner asks and is told it's a transfer, and then bids 3. You have no agreement about what a double would mean here, and therefore you can't deduce what 3 shows in any detail.

Do you bid 3NT, pass, or find some other call?

Pass. Not even close. What extra values do you have?

View PostCamHenry, on 2012-August-29, 14:09, said:

2 was not alerted. I was called at the end of the auction, when S said "I should have alerted 2 as a transfer". E said that, with correct information, she'd have bid 3 over 2; since this was before she had any idea of the full layout I see no reason to doubt the statement.

Obviously the correct ruling is that she can take back her final pass, and then she probably balances with 3. Unfortunately I'm rusty, and denied her this option, so now I have to make a ruling. 3 goes either 1 or 2 off, while 2 made 140 at the table. 3NT goes badly enough that, if it had been a clear-cut bid on the W hand, I'd have ruled "no damage".

Obviously we have TD error, so we must factor that into the equation. If you had given East the chance to take the final pass back I think there is little doubt that she would, and this sequence is definitely going to be passed. But you have not given us the full hand, and N/S might compete to 3.

Since we do not know what would have happened without TD error, and we are told to treat each side as non-offending in this case, and assuming that N/S are somewhat likely but not very to compete [a guess without seeing the hands] a reasonable ruling seems to be:

For N/S:
.. 40% of 3 =, NS +140
+ 35% of 3 -2, NS +100
+ 25% of 3 -1, NS +50

For E/W:
.. 25% of 3 =, NS +140
+ 35% of 3 -2, NS +100
+ 40% of 3 -1, NS +50

This is interesting, because with the correct ruling the possibility of East bidding 3 on the second round and West doing something injudicious is actually irrelevant. Strange, but I think I have got it right.

View PostCyberyeti, on 2012-August-29, 14:30, said:

Do you have to rule director error about the final pass and give the affected side an artificial good score ?

It is certainly TD error, but where do oyu get "artificial good score" from? You adjust by assigned scores, but give each side the benefit of the doubt. No artificial scores are given.

View Postaguahombre, on 2012-August-30, 10:21, said:

3H is forcing to the posters who chose 3NT. It is forcing to most of the Bridge World. You must have some very low opinions of this E/W ---anything we post here doesn't matter to your decision if we don't have that same insight.

It is not forcing to most of the Bridge World. Good players may or may not think it forcing, but no average or below player is going to treat it as forcing - why should they? When I play on a Tuesday night, there are about 33 pairs, of whom about 31 will not see the problem and see no reason why it is forcing. As for the other 2, I am one of them and I certainly do not play it as forcing.
David Stevenson

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