[VixTD]

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Matchpoint pairs.

The defence started with ace and another diamond, and declarer ruffed the third round high, played two top trumps and led a club from dummy. East took the ace and exited with another club. Declarer threw a heart from dummy and cashed the remaining spades.

I (East) blew it by discarding a heart, so declarer made ten tricks. The way I see it, the secret to reading the hand lies in accurate and informative discarding, and without that I cannot tell if the end position is:

(a).......♠6 ♥K76............(b).............♠6 ♥K76
♥J5 ♣J7......♥Q103 ♣Q...........♥J52 ♣7.......♥Q103 ♣Q
..........♥A982................................♥A98 ♣J

Do you have any advice on how to avoid this? We generally play natural discards (high encourages the suit discarded). Should West discard high-low in clubs to show the jack, or is it better to show length so that East can work out declarer's shape? If we have to switch to signal distribution just for this situation, how do we know which signals we're using? Simple solutions preferred, if possible.

[dwar0123]

Partner is going to be pitching plenty of clubs and can easily give count after initially giving attitude.
I believe, un-discussed, giving the count on the remaining cards is normal.

So after giving the attitude(assuming you always show attitude, which isn't normal when opponents start the suit) of liking clubs by playing a high one when you take the ace, he should(with std) give an odd(remaining) count by playing up the line when following/discarding on spades.

Of course, it is more important to agree than what specifically you are agreeing too.

[Codo]

So which signals do you give?
1. If you play any form of length signals, West should show you his even number, so you have no guess.
2. If you play attitude signals, you should know when to switch and what to show. It is surely possible to show length after you showed attitude or it is possibe to show suit preference, in which case East can show his club value after he saw the ace and the king.

But:
3. Even without any signal: Which declarer with KJ(x) opposite a chicane will play the King after you played a second club? He simply cannot hold the jack of clubs. So in this particular case, there was no reason to think too hard about this hand, simply hold onto your hearts...

[han]

Play count signals.

If you are not playing count signals and your partner's discards are not helpful at all, maybe you should still get it right. Unless declarer knows what a squeeze is, declarer might have finessed in clubs with KJx to make the contract much earlier.

[VixTD]

Thanks for the replies.

I see this was perhaps not a very good example of the common problem I have of co-ordinating the defence when declarer runs a long suit. I should have noted a high-low count signal on the first two rounds of clubs (count on declarer's lead). I'm still looking for general points to discuss with partner, though.

I think part of my confusion is that encouraging discards early in the hand (before there's any squeezing going on) simply indicate safe suits for partner to switch to, rather than high cards, per se. Once declarer starts running a long suit it is more urgent to tell partner which high cards are held, so the rules change in mid game. (Is this right?) And how does a player know which high cards are important? ♣J looks important to West, but would the ten have been?

You may well be right that declarer should have played the jack on the second round, had he held it, but I'm not entirely convinced. Declarer does know what a squeeze is, and if the jack is covered he'll have lost a possible threat card for a squeeze against West, should he happen to also hold length in hearts.

[Codo]

I am not convinced that the squeeze line is good at all. You need LHO to hold the queen of clubs and an honour in heart besides the ace of diamond and jack of spade he already showed. He bid 2 ♦ with Jx,Txx,Axx,Qxxxx after rho openend 1 Diamond with x,QJ,KJxxx,Axxxx.

This is surely possible, but is this more likely then a simple finesse through opener? I doubt that...

Besides: I dislike your club return. If declarer has the jack of hearts, he is home anyway- again with a simple finesse. But if partner holds this card and declarer the jack of clubs, you just gave him a chance to make the contract. I had played the obvious diamond, this had not helped your case, but still. If declarer had elaminate the diamonds before, I had tried a heart, never a club.

[rmnka447]

David Bird gives an excellent discussion of signalling in his book Defensive Signaling at Bridge. He suggests that there is a signaling hierarchy -- most important Attitude, then Count, and finally Suit preference.

In this hand, when declarer leads the ♣, Attitude really doesn't matter because of dummy's stiff. So by default, West's signal should be count. A high spot shows even. So West likely has at least 4 or 6 ♣.

Additionally, you need to consider any other evidence based on the bidding -- what was bid and what was NOT bid. If West held 4 ♥s, wouldn't a negative double have been made with his hand? If West didn't negative double -- he probably doesn't hold 4 ♥s, then declarer must hold at least 3.

Finally, a clue from declarer's play on the hand, if declarer had another ♣ beside the ♣ K when the second ♣ was led, it could have been ruffed in dummy.

So the evidence is strong that your ♥ are vital. Feel yourself unlucky if declarer shows up with the ♥ AJx at the end and finesses your Q.

[Phil]

If East is paying attention, West is showing an even number of clubs, and there's no reason to play games with the count here. If its 4, then declarer is 5=2=2=4 and you aren't beating the hand unless partner has the ♥K. This also means partner didn't make a negative double holding 3 diamonds and 4 hearts.

There's no signaling magic that needs to take place - you just need to take some time, clear away the fog and work out the position.

[VixTD]

rmnka447, on 2012-October-04, 08:45, said:

David Bird gives an excellent discussion of signalling in his book Defensive Signaling at Bridge. He suggests that there is a signaling hierarchy -- most important Attitude, then Count, and finally Suit preference.

I've not read it, but I was looking through Pottage's book on "easy signalling" again last night, which I imagine covers the same ground. The biggest problem is not learning the theory, but persuading partner to follow it too, which was why I was looking for simple tips I could get started with.

rmnka447, on 2012-October-04, 08:45, said:

Finally, a clue from declarer's play on the hand, if declarer had another ♣ beside the ♣ K when the second ♣ was led, it could have been ruffed in dummy.

Yes, but that wouldn't gain him any tricks, so he might well decide not to do it.

I'll say again that giving this example was probably unhelpful as it just provided a number of distractions of other aspects of my defence I need to work on. Placing required cards into the unseen hands and defending on that basis is another difficult aspect of defence, and my opponents (like me) don't always play as they should.

[gszes]

either would have worked here if p showed and even number of clubs u would know
declarers last 4 cards were A98x of hearts since if he started life with Ax KJxx in hearts
and clubs they would just ruff out the club losers.

If p signals encouraging in clubs it makes it easy for you to pitch your clubs and hold hearts.

givng count t let p know when to take an ace (or win a finesse) usually works best however
when p has already taken the ace (like this hand) i find it far better to show attitude vs count.
then follow up with count if you can. This hand p will encourage in clubs so you will hold hearts
if P started wtih xxxxx clubs they will discourage then give you postive count so you will know
to hold your clubs. This is especially effective vs squeezes which require playing free winners and
usually allowing p and yourself time to card effectively.

No matter which signals you agree to in advance a hand will come up where the other signalling method
would have worked better thats life but get an agreement anything is better than just guessing all the time.