matchpoints. do you support with 3 here? if not, when would you?
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basic question
#2
Posted 2013-September-04, 05:10
I would not support here (assuming that I do not have a support double as an option) because:
1) In a free bid situation, bidding tends to suggest that I do not have a minimum balanced hand, but I actually have a sub-minimum balanced hand (the heart Jack went from nearly worthless to no value at all on this bidding).
2) I do not wish to encourage a diamond lead against a heart contract unless partner's holding needs no help (the 10 spot will not please him if he leads a diamond from a broken sequence).
Note that a slightly different holding such as ♠ A 10 4 2, ♥ 2, ♦ K 10 3, ♣ K J 5 3 2 would address both issues and mow I would favor the raise with 3.
1) In a free bid situation, bidding tends to suggest that I do not have a minimum balanced hand, but I actually have a sub-minimum balanced hand (the heart Jack went from nearly worthless to no value at all on this bidding).
2) I do not wish to encourage a diamond lead against a heart contract unless partner's holding needs no help (the 10 spot will not please him if he leads a diamond from a broken sequence).
Note that a slightly different holding such as ♠ A 10 4 2, ♥ 2, ♦ K 10 3, ♣ K J 5 3 2 would address both issues and mow I would favor the raise with 3.
You must know the rules well - so that you may break them wisely!
#4
Posted 2013-September-04, 05:15
Bill, I think your example hand is a double rather than a 3♦ rebid. I agree with not supporting on the weak NT in the OP though.
Note that this auction is one reason I think the Stolen Bid Double approach is actually better than Standard for new players after 1♣ - (1♥). If double shows diamonds here then a 2♦ response guarantees a 5 card suit and a good hand and I think this simplifies several N/B bidding issues. The downside of not getting the spade length in quickly is also lessened at N/B level since the opps tend not to compete so aggressively.
Note that this auction is one reason I think the Stolen Bid Double approach is actually better than Standard for new players after 1♣ - (1♥). If double shows diamonds here then a 2♦ response guarantees a 5 card suit and a good hand and I think this simplifies several N/B bidding issues. The downside of not getting the spade length in quickly is also lessened at N/B level since the opps tend not to compete so aggressively.
(-: Zel :-)
#5
Posted 2013-September-04, 06:17
By contrast to the others I would raise. My general philosophy is to just raise when I have one, in pretty much any situation. As far as how good a hand it shows: partner has already shown a good hand, so I don't see 3♦ as showing anything special, with a good hand I would bid more. Perhaps some people play a raise here as forcing, I'm not even sure what's standard, if so then certainly 3♦ is out, if not... then isn't that your hand?
#7
Posted 2013-September-04, 09:06
In all versions of standard with which I am familiar, partner's 2♦ call promised another action if the auction came back to him at a low enough level. It was certainly a force beyond 2♥, since had my rho passed, I would have had to make a bid and 2♥ by me would have been a cuebid
This is an important point since it means that we have a forcing call available here: a call that says: I have nothing to say, partner...my clubs are not rebiddable, my diamonds aren't good enough and/or my hand isn't good enough to raise you, and I have no reason to bid notrump or show a good hand with shape by bidding 2♠.
IOW, I can PASS
Pass is the call that most advancing bridge players tend to ignore, but in many auctions, pass is a very descriptive call. Here, for example, pass essentially says I have a weak hand and typically either a weak notrump or a hand with long but broken clubs.
Since partner isn't allowed to pass, we have lots of time. Partner has options, and over most of them, we bid 3♦ showing 3 card support with a hand too weak to bid immediately.
Otoh, he may bid, say, 2♠, showing 4 spades and 5+ diamonds and a good hand (since he would negative double with that shape and a weaker hand)...now we'd raise spades rather than diamonds. And so on.
BTW, for those advocating a support double or any other specialized double in this sequence: take another look at the forum we're in. Not that I would dream of a support double in this auction anyway. I do agree that double here is best played as something other than penalty, and that it is appropriate to suggest in this forum that low level doubles of opponents who have bid and raised, and therefore have a fit, be taken as takeout...4=1=3=5 would be prototypical, and it may be that one would have difficulty constructing a takeout double with only 3 diamonds, but the double isn't just about diamonds, as a support double would be.
This is an important point since it means that we have a forcing call available here: a call that says: I have nothing to say, partner...my clubs are not rebiddable, my diamonds aren't good enough and/or my hand isn't good enough to raise you, and I have no reason to bid notrump or show a good hand with shape by bidding 2♠.
IOW, I can PASS
Pass is the call that most advancing bridge players tend to ignore, but in many auctions, pass is a very descriptive call. Here, for example, pass essentially says I have a weak hand and typically either a weak notrump or a hand with long but broken clubs.
Since partner isn't allowed to pass, we have lots of time. Partner has options, and over most of them, we bid 3♦ showing 3 card support with a hand too weak to bid immediately.
Otoh, he may bid, say, 2♠, showing 4 spades and 5+ diamonds and a good hand (since he would negative double with that shape and a weaker hand)...now we'd raise spades rather than diamonds. And so on.
BTW, for those advocating a support double or any other specialized double in this sequence: take another look at the forum we're in. Not that I would dream of a support double in this auction anyway. I do agree that double here is best played as something other than penalty, and that it is appropriate to suggest in this forum that low level doubles of opponents who have bid and raised, and therefore have a fit, be taken as takeout...4=1=3=5 would be prototypical, and it may be that one would have difficulty constructing a takeout double with only 3 diamonds, but the double isn't just about diamonds, as a support double would be.
'one of the great markers of the advance of human kindness is the howls you will hear from the Men of God' Johann Hari
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