[phoenix214]

---

During an match, where my friends were playing(me kibbing) this hand came along. Playing 2/1 with some basic gadgets they had the following auction. Seems quite reasonable to me, they though so as well, although the missed a slam.
This led me to think, is it somehow possible to bid the slam using their methods. The only reasonable solution imagined is that now W has to imagine E with a perfect minimum to try slam, but it may get them overboard.
After this, i tried in my head a little switch in bidding. Lets say e does not open 1C, but passes(It is possible to pass 11 counts ). Now on third hand W opens 1S. E rebids forcing NT. Since they have agreed to play Gazzilli, they have a nice tool available here namely 2NT, which would be 6-4 with 14-16 or so. After E finds about hearts, for him imagining a perfect minimum is much easier(W hand is a perfect minimum). And when E shows a move to slam in H, W should like his hand due to 6 controls and 5 loosers.
Anyhow, maybe you can suggest better natural methods for finding the slam after the 1C opening?
Thanks in advance

[BillHiggin]

IMHO, yes! West has a huge hand, and no fear of any two loser suit. After finding the heart fit, RKC will answer the only real questions. Splinter and then quit was way too mild. East certainly bid all of his values!

[Cyberyeti]

As soon as E bids 2♥ W can see a potential slam opposite not much more than ♥AQxx/♠Qx, I think he can move over 4♥ (yes he can comne unstuck here, the 5 level is not safe). While 4♦ is descriptive, it leaves no room for partner to do anything below 4♥. I think he may get more info by bidding 3♥ than 4♦. I don't know what you play 3N as in a cue sequence, but if partner now cues 4♦ you know he has no black control so A♦ and some heart cards look pretty likely, so Blackwood will get you there.

[mike777]

BillHiggin, on 2013-December-11, 18:03, said:

IMHO, yes! West has a huge hand, and no fear of any two loser suit. After finding the heart fit, RKC will answer the only real questions. Splinter and then quit was way too mild. East certainly bid all of his values!

ditto

[Fluffy]

East has 3 keycards, when the maximum he could ever have is 4.

It is true that his hand sucks opposite a diamond void, but if partner does not have it (like here) slam will be very good.

His hand is in the upper 65% of hands he could have, for me this is enough to make a possitive.


West cannot move over 4♥, he could play at the 5 level opposite ♥Jxxx

[Cyberyeti]

Fluffy, on 2013-December-11, 18:11, said:

East has 3 keycards, when the maximum he could ever have is 4.

It is true that his hand sucks opposite a diamond void, but if partner does not have it (like here) slam will be very good.

His hand is in the upper 65% of hands he could have, for me this is enough to make a possitive.


West cannot move over 4♥, he could play at the 5 level opposite ♥Jxxx

What difference does it make if partner has a third club rather than a stiff diamond ?

This is an interesting question of philosophy, we take the view that if it's more likely 6 is on than you're going to go off in 5 we bid, I know a lot of pairs don't do this. You have to have a thick skin to do this, but we find it works for us, we would certainly move here.

[nigel_k]

Fluffy is right. East should do more, not West. Two aces, trump queen and jack of partner's suit is a good hand on this auction.

[Cyberyeti]

nigel_k, on 2013-December-11, 23:28, said:

Fluffy is right. East should do more, not West. Two aces, trump queen and jack of partner's suit is a good hand on this auction.

Unfortunately partner's hand was AKQ10xx, KJxx, void QJx and you went off in 5 on the club ruff.

What is E supposed to do ? W left him no space to show interest below 4♥.

[nigel_k]

Cyberyeti, on 2013-December-12, 03:33, said:

Unfortunately partner's hand was AKQ10xx, KJxx, void QJx and you went off in 5 on the club ruff.

What is E supposed to do ? W left him no space to show interest below 4♥.

East has quite a narrow range and West has made a slam try. So East shouldn't worry about going past 4♥ if he has the right cards. It's not like an auction where West has simply forced to game and East wants to show interest in case West has extras. The splinter in this context implies that slam is likely if there is no diamond wastage.

[Trinidad]

West's 4♦ says: "I know that you have a 12-14 NT with 4 hearts. We have a heart fit. I am short in diamonds. Look at your hand. If the diamond shortness fits your hand, we are in the slam zone." East says: "Sorry, your diamond shortness doesn't fit my hand."

East is wrong. West has done everything.

Rik

[Cyberyeti]

nigel_k, on 2013-December-12, 05:14, said:

East has quite a narrow range and West has made a slam try. So East shouldn't worry about going past 4♥ if he has the right cards. It's not like an auction where West has simply forced to game and East wants to show interest in case West has extras. The splinter in this context implies that slam is likely if there is no diamond wastage.

And E has no idea if the A is diamond wastage because he doesn't know if he's opposite singleton or void. It's entirely possible that lack of a club or high spade honour is the critical feature of the hand.

Also AKx would be a great diamond holding as it ditches the club loser, this might not be apparent from the splinter which is why I don't like it.

[billw55]

Fluffy, on 2013-December-11, 18:11, said:

East has 3 keycards, when the maximum he could ever have is 4.

It is true that his hand sucks opposite a diamond void, but if partner does not have it (like here) slam will be very good.

His hand is in the upper 65% of hands he could have, for me this is enough to make a possitive.


West cannot move over 4♥, he could play at the 5 level opposite ♥Jxxx

nigel_k, on 2013-December-11, 23:28, said:

Fluffy is right. East should do more, not West. Two aces, trump queen and jack of partner's suit is a good hand on this auction.

Trinidad, on 2013-December-12, 05:18, said:

West's 4♦ says: "I know that you have a 12-14 NT with 4 hearts. We have a heart fit. I am short in diamonds. Look at your hand. If the diamond shortness fits your hand, we are in the slam zone." East says: "Sorry, your diamond shortness doesn't fit my hand."

East is wrong. West has done everything.

Rik

Interesting points, but none of you have suggested an actual bid over 4♦. Is it so obvious and I am missing it?

[MrAce]

4♥ with 2 kc + Q, good ♦ holding and being already limited, is ridiculous.

[mfa1010]

I'm with Fluffy and others on this one.

Cyberyeti, on 2013-December-12, 03:33, said:

Unfortunately partner's hand was AKQ10xx, KJxx, void QJx and you went off in 5 on the club ruff.

Crappy luck. I made 1430 on this board with a nonclub lead. Or was it 1460.

[billw55]

MrAce, on 2013-December-12, 09:04, said:

4♥ with 2 kc + Q, good ♦ holding and being already limited, is ridiculous.

mfa1010, on 2013-December-12, 09:23, said:

I'm with Fluffy and others on this one.

... and still no actual suggestions. Come on guys, give us a bid.

[ArtK78]

billw55, on 2013-December-12, 09:41, said:

... and still no actual suggestions. Come on guys, give us a bid.

5♦. Make your one and only slam try. You deny a black suit control, show a diamond control and, by inference, show strong hearts (in context).

[Trinidad]

billw55, on 2013-December-12, 07:14, said:

Interesting points, but none of you have suggested an actual bid over 4♦. Is it so obvious and I am missing it?

billw55, on 2013-December-12, 09:41, said:

... and still no actual suggestions. Come on guys, give us a bid.

I think 5♦ is 100% obvious. (Sorry for the late reply, but sometimes my boss requires me to work. ... I know, it's weird ...)

Rik

[MickyB]

I think more effort should be put into distinguishing voids from stiffs on this sort of auction. 5D is obvious opposite a stiff diamond, but pretty horrible if partner turns out to be making a try because of his void. Lacking any such agreement, 5D is clearly the percentage bid - stiffs are rather more common than voids, and we might still get away with playing 5H when pard is void.

[Cyberyeti]

MickyB, on 2013-December-12, 12:02, said:

I think more effort should be put into distinguishing voids from stiffs on this sort of auction. 5D is obvious opposite a stiff diamond, but pretty horrible if partner turns out to be making a try because of his void. Lacking any such agreement, 5D is clearly the percentage bid - stiffs are rather more common than voids, and we might still get away with playing 5H when pard is void.

Absolutely agree. I much prefer to find out what's going on at lower level by bidding 3♥ with the singleton and saving 4♦ for the void. Over 4♦ partner hardly gets excited with Jx, QJ10x, AKx, Jxxx which is very likely to be enough.

[MrAce]

I also don't like the splinter with W hand. AKxxxx side suit will almost always reduce the accuracy of where we land when pd is focused on splinter suit. I would have more sympathy if the 6 card spade suit was not topped by AK.