[jallerton]

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I inflicted this sequence on my partner last weekend. What sort of hand would you expect Responder to hold for this sequence?

[Valardent]

jallerton, on 2014-May-30, 16:35, said:

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I inflicted this sequence on my partner last weekend. What sort of hand would you expect Responder to hold for this sequence?

I would think a 4432 hand (4441/4423 remotely possible) with weakish ♥ and/or good ♠, suggesting 4♠ in the moysian fit as an alternative.

It shouldn't be difficult to construct 2 hands 3154/44xx where 4♠ is the only makable game.

[Zelandakh]

Assuming that Valardent's opening hand construction would have bid 2♠ at the third turn to pattern out, it seems to me that the only sensible way to treat this 3♠ call is showing doubt about spades for 3NT. If instead 2♠ as Opener's third call would have shown doubt and 2NT shows a proper stopper then 3♠ should be natural.

[FrancesHinden]

I think it shows a supermax, values in spades and very bad hearts and suggests a diamond fit. Maybe KQx xxxx Qxxx Jx.

[gnasher]

Zelandakh, on 2014-May-30, 18:06, said:

Assuming that Valardent's opening hand construction would have bid 2♠ at the third turn to pattern out

I wouldn't assume that. In my world, 2♠ is FSF, showing something like a 2254 17- or 18-count with no spade stop.

[PhilKing]

I'm with Valardent:

♠KQJx
♥9xxx
♦Qxx
♣xx

Even a Meckstrothian 4-2 fit could be right when pard has:

♠Ax
♥Jx
♦AKJxx
♣KQxx

And if I bid 3NT, good players know to frequently lead a heart on this type of auction.

[Zelandakh]

gnasher, on 2014-May-31, 04:01, said:

I wouldn't assume that. In my world, 2♠ is FSF, showing something like a 2254 17- or 18-count with no spade stop.

Therefore I gave both ways. And therefore I say that to answer the question we need to know the difference between 2♠ and 2NT as Opener's third bid. This is not dissimilar to many threads we have had here in which some play the fourth suit naturally and others as artificial. As usual all of the Brits are playing it artificially; I expect to see more love for natural when the Americans get on.

To Phil, would you actually raise 3♠ to 4 with the South hand in your construction? Sure it might be right but to be useful we have to be able to bid it when it is right. And outside of the highest expert circles that is not going to happen much.

[wanoff]

FrancesHinden, on 2014-May-31, 03:17, said:

I think it shows a supermax, values in spades and very bad hearts and suggests a diamond fit. Maybe KQx xxxx Qxxx Jx.

You could expand this idea so that 3♠ (or 3♣) shows 2nd and 3rd round control - a splinter or Kx, and a diamond fit.

eg x Axxxx Qxxx Jxx, Kx Jxxx Kxxx Jxx

But I think its better to get to the right game first, so I'll also go with Valardent.

[P_Marlowe]

2D was a sign off, 2NT was inv., 3S accepts the inv.

3S shoes 543?, if it is shortage or length is partnership depend,
for us it would be length with values.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[jallerton]

Related question: what sorts of hand should Responder have if over 2NT he bids: (i) 3♣; (ii) 3♥?

[gnasher]

jallerton, on 2014-June-01, 03:20, said:

Related question: what sorts of hand should Responder have if over 2NT he bids: (i) 3♣; (ii) 3♥?

One of those is easy: 3♣ shows a false-preference with four clubs. Again it's likely to have weakish hearts. Maybe Axx Jxxx Jx Qxxx ?

[PhilKing]

jallerton, on 2014-June-01, 03:20, said:

Related question: what sorts of hand should Responder have if over 2NT he bids: (i) 3♣; (ii) 3♥?

I agree with Gnasher about (i).

(ii) I like to play as a baby Bluhmer - eg Axxx xxxx JTx Kx.

[whereagles]

I wouldn't engage on a sequence like this, but I do have it implicitly defined as stopper ask, in the sense of "I don't contribute to stop spades. Proceed to 3NT at your own risk."

[Zelandakh]

If 2♠ is patterning out then 3♥ over 2NT can be natural, suggesting 4♥ as a possible contract. If 2♠ is artificial then finding a good meaning for 3♠ is more difficult. Phil, could you not incorporate your 3♠ call (weak hearts, good spades) into the 3♥ (weak hearts) here, with Opener continuing 3♠ if they would like to play spades opposite the hand with good spades? Whether there is another useful purpose for the 3♠ call of course is another matter.

[jallerton]

Yes, there does seem to be some overlap between Phil's suggested meanings for 3♥ and 3♠ here; in both cases, we want partner is to avoid 3NT with a small singleton heart. If 3♠ shows values in spades then perhaps 3♥ should be a hand with values in hearts. The hand I actually held contained a singleton club and good diamond support: depending on partner's club holding it could have been right to play in 3NT or 5♦.