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Reopen or not?

#1 User is offline   yunling 

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Posted 2014-July-29, 00:08



With doubleton in their suit, passing looks dangerous, but there's no convenient call I can make:(
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#2 User is offline   biggerclub 

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Posted 2014-July-29, 00:15

 yunling, on 2014-July-29, 00:08, said:



With doublton in their suit, passing looks dangerous, but there's no convenient call I can make:(


You have to re-open. I choose x, and hope that P has at least 5 or even better, 5.

We will not get too high, because in my partnerships I would reopen without the K. My regular partners know that I almost always re-open in this setting and that I don't always have perfect shape.
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#3 User is offline   1eyedjack 

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Posted 2014-July-29, 02:22

 biggerclub, on 2014-July-29, 00:15, said:

We will not get too high ...


You MAY get too high, either because 2D undoubled by the opponents may be par, or because nothing makes but partner lacks the confidence to pass the double, or because partner bids 2H on a 4 card suit expecting 3 card support when 2S is a better spot.

I think that passing it out has merit. Partner's pass marks him either with (a) a hand too weak for game your way, or (b) a misfit. In case (b) he may be sitting on a penalty double that you may miss out on. That's life I think.
Psych (pron. saik): A gross and deliberate misstatement of honour strength and/or suit length. Expressly permitted under Law 73E but forbidden contrary to that law by Acol club tourneys.

Psyche (pron. sahy-kee): The human soul, spirit or mind (derived, personification thereof, beloved of Eros, Greek myth).
Masterminding (pron. mPosted ImagesPosted ImagetPosted Imager-mPosted ImagendPosted Imageing) tr. v. - Any bid made by bridge player with which partner disagrees.

"Gentlemen, when the barrage lifts." 9th battalion, King's own Yorkshire light infantry,
2000 years earlier: "morituri te salutant"

"I will be with you, whatever". Blair to Bush, precursor to invasion of Iraq
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#4 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2014-July-29, 03:01

 yunling, on 2014-July-29, 00:08, said:

With doubleton in their suit, passing looks dangerous, but there's no convenient call I can make:(

What is inconvenient about a double?
(-: Zel :-)
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#5 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2014-July-29, 03:14

I am not sure if partner should bid 2 with 2-4 in the majors. With 1444 obviously he should.

A trap pass by partner is unlikely when we hold Kx and opps make a vulnerable 2-level overcall. 3NT is possible but can we bid it? If partner bids a lebensohl 3 I suppose we could try 3NT. But I wouldn't be particularly confident about it. We might have only one diamond stopper and no source of quick tricks.

I would double because I am used to playing in fields where the overcall could be on AJxxx in which case it is possible that p has a trap pass. But against decent opps I think pass is better.
The world would be such a happy place, if only everyone played Acol :) --- TramTicket
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#6 User is offline   the_clown 

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Posted 2014-July-29, 03:16

Easy pass for me.
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#7 User is offline   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2014-July-29, 03:20

X.

Same, if they had overcalled 2H.

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With kind regards
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#8 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2014-July-29, 07:31

I don't feel like partner is trapping. So we need him to have at least 8 for a game, in which case he won't have support nor 4+ hearts.

If we pass we MIGHT miss a game if pard has 8-9 with 2335 or thereabouts (with any 10+ I think he'd have bid something), but other than that pass seems to have no inconveniences. I'll take my chances with that call.
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#9 User is offline   rmnka447 

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Posted 2014-July-29, 11:09

I'm doubling. I'm not ready to concede the hand to the opponents just yet.

I don't think it is likely for partner to hold a stack and be making a trap pass. However, it isn't impossible. If partner decides to convert to a penalty double, opener's hand has some nice defensive cards.

With a doubleton and a smattering of points, partner can always comfortably rest in 2 .

It is also possible for partner to be long in a rounded suit and we can find a good resting place there when pard bids his suit.

Also, white vs. red, off 1 in a part score will be good if 2 makes. Off 2 or off 1 doubled will be good if they can make 3. Even better if we push them to 3 and beat them when 2 makes then we'll get a great board.

If we compete further, then it puts the opponents under pressure to figure out what to do. That's good for you in the long run.
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#10 User is offline   trevahound 

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Posted 2014-July-29, 14:33

Partner could easily be trapping here. Even if partner isn't happily trapping, partner could have as many as six diamonds (unlikely, but it does happen). Selling out at any form of scoring with this nice hand where we're not playing penalty doubles is like an alien language to me. I would think very unkind thoughts about a partner who didn't do me the courtesy of reopening when short in their suit, nevermind all the extras and favorable colors. I have (unsurprisingly) been set before, so I'm no longer protecting that virtue.
"I suggest a chapter on "strongest dummy opposite my free bids." For example, someone might wonder how I once put this hand down as dummy in a spade contract: AQ10xxx void AKQxx KQ. Did I start with Michaels? Did I cuebid until partner was forced to pick one of my suits? No, I was just playing with Brian (6S made when the trump king dropped singleton)." David Wright
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#11 User is offline   1eyedjack 

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Posted 2014-July-29, 19:07

If partner has a trap. then they can likely wriggle out into 2H. Typically East would be sitting there with a weak hand and a string of Hearts that he cannot bid non-forcing until you sit for 2DX.

My long term experience of trying to extract a double on every hand on which partner may have trapped, regardless of the consequences when he has not, have not been very successful, from recollection - no scientific study, mind. But I wonder whether you might not be better reverting to penalty doubles if that concerned.


Psych (pron. saik): A gross and deliberate misstatement of honour strength and/or suit length. Expressly permitted under Law 73E but forbidden contrary to that law by Acol club tourneys.

Psyche (pron. sahy-kee): The human soul, spirit or mind (derived, personification thereof, beloved of Eros, Greek myth).
Masterminding (pron. mPosted ImagesPosted ImagetPosted Imager-mPosted ImagendPosted Imageing) tr. v. - Any bid made by bridge player with which partner disagrees.

"Gentlemen, when the barrage lifts." 9th battalion, King's own Yorkshire light infantry,
2000 years earlier: "morituri te salutant"

"I will be with you, whatever". Blair to Bush, precursor to invasion of Iraq
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#12 User is offline   neilkaz 

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Posted 2014-July-29, 20:27

I cannot bear to sell out to 2 with this prime 16 count so I X.
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#13 User is offline   1eyedjack 

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Posted 2014-July-29, 21:19

I would call it a prime 13 count plus a useless Kx.

Not that that makes X wrong.



Psych (pron. saik): A gross and deliberate misstatement of honour strength and/or suit length. Expressly permitted under Law 73E but forbidden contrary to that law by Acol club tourneys.

Psyche (pron. sahy-kee): The human soul, spirit or mind (derived, personification thereof, beloved of Eros, Greek myth).
Masterminding (pron. mPosted ImagesPosted ImagetPosted Imager-mPosted ImagendPosted Imageing) tr. v. - Any bid made by bridge player with which partner disagrees.

"Gentlemen, when the barrage lifts." 9th battalion, King's own Yorkshire light infantry,
2000 years earlier: "morituri te salutant"

"I will be with you, whatever". Blair to Bush, precursor to invasion of Iraq
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#14 User is offline   yunling 

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Posted 2014-July-29, 21:49

 Zelandakh, on 2014-July-29, 03:01, said:

What is inconvenient about a double?


May play in a 4-2 fit heart contract
And dunno what to do if p comes up with 3
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#15 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2014-July-29, 22:00

 yunling, on 2014-July-29, 21:49, said:

May play in a 4-2 fit heart contract
And dunno what to do if p comes up with 3

Why would a partner who didn't neg double or freebid come up with 3H after our reopening double?

However, I go with the one-eyed guy here. They have a good heart runout of 2DX or partner is so weak and fitless we won't do well after I reopen.

However, this all assumes CHO knows what a Negative double looks like.
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#16 User is offline   yunling 

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Posted 2014-July-29, 23:05

 aguahombre, on 2014-July-29, 22:00, said:

Why would a partner who didn't neg double or freebid come up with 3H after our reopening double?

However, I go with the one-eyed guy here. They have a good heart runout of 2DX or partner is so weak and fitless we won't do well after I reopen.

However, this all assumes CHO knows what a Negative double looks like.


Robson and Segal says it is possible for
AQ742
63
Q54
J75
to pass and then jump to 3 after p's dbl after 1 (2) at vul IMPs

So maybe it is also the case for a 2-5-3-3 or 5-4 9-10 count here
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#17 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2014-July-29, 23:48

 yunling, on 2014-July-29, 23:05, said:

Robson and Segal says it is possible for
AQ742
63
Q54
J75
to pass and then jump to 3 after p's dbl after 1 (2) at vul IMPs

So maybe it is also the case for a 2-5-3-3 or 5-4 9-10 count here

I don't know why, in their (4-cM?) system they wouldn't use a negative double with that hand, but I do know I would. So, the case for or against reopening with the OP hand is largely dependent upon too many possible non-responding hands to be resolved here.
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
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#18 User is offline   msjennifer 

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Posted 2014-July-30, 00:17

Playing negative doubles I am going to reopen with 3 clubs as I am an aggressive bidder.
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#19 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted 2014-July-30, 01:59

 yunling, on 2014-July-29, 00:08, said:



With doubleton in their suit, passing looks dangerous, but there's no convenient call I can make:(


I am going to pass

call me a conservative, old fashion, whatever
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#20 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2014-July-30, 03:59

 yunling, on 2014-July-29, 23:05, said:

to pass and then jump to 3 after p's dbl after 1 (2) at vul IMPs

So maybe it is also the case for a 2-5-3-3 or 5-4 9-10 count here

You are missing the difference in the suit order. In the R-S example Opener's double is likely to hold spade length as this is the suit that got preempted. With only the red suits they could have rebid 2 instead. In the OP case the preempted suit is clubs - with a major two-suiter we would have rebid 2. Yes there are hands where other distributions are possible but this affects the expected lengths in the unbid major. That is quite aside from the argument about whether that is really a pass + 3M hand.

I think you want to make this more complicated than it is. This is simply a judgement call about whether we want to compete or not. Some think the the risks are too great, others not. For me, I would sooner give partner a choice between 2, 3 and 3 (by continuing 2 over 2) than sell out to 2 so having the option to stop in 2 (or 2X) is like a bonus. This would be more of an issue at Game All for me.
(-: Zel :-)
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