[kiwinacol]

Hello all,

I'm learning Mike Lawrences 2/1 style from his CD and my new partner has another learned mentor, but we still missed slam ... yes its not the greatest one you've been in.

North, D, all non-vul.

S AT9753
H A6
D 62
C A87

South

S Q864
H KQJT8
D -
C T643

Our sequence: 1S 4D* (X) 4H 5D** 5S pass .. 5D** splinter is void. With my heart holding, the H cue was very encouraging, hence my second try on my marginal hand.

I was reluctant to bid 2H GF over 1S as I felt I didn't have enough HCP, and partner may have wasted values in D.


My partners mentor suggested:

1S 2H 2S 3S 4C 4D 4H 4S 6S ... " as I never splinter with a void or stiff ace."

We haven't yet established many agreements, but I felt altering my partner to the D shortage on a possibly minimal hand (not intending to suggest more than game values) was a reasonable description. We have not yet started on Bergen style raises.

One problem was that we couldn't put a value on the splinters hcp value, and secondly what would the alternative 2/1 2H response show in comparison?

Does a splinter sit under/near the lower end of a 2/1 bid or are they similar in value, the splinter shape reducing the load on other 2/1 sequences? I can understand not splintering a singleton Ace but a void feels OK to me. Is it fine to upgrade the south hand to a 2H bid?

thank you.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

a good agreement is, that the first cue should show a top honor,
i.e. the heart cue should show the Ace or King (if partner has shown
a long suit, a cue in this suit may also be based on the Queen).

Staying out of the slam is sensible, you are getting a club attack most
of the time, and than the slam is less than 50%.

Opener can also pass the double, in which case responder can redouble
to show / deny first round control.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[fromageGB]

kiwinacol, on 2015-April-20, 05:42, said:

I was reluctant to bid 2H GF over 1S as I felt I didn't have enough HCP...

If you are playing any variety of 2/1 I would agree with you. If opener has a strong hand you may not be able to keep him out of a grand slam, let alone a poor small slam. Starting out, it would be a good idea to stick to an agreed hcp, such as 13, for a 2/1 until you have discussed how you can later distinguish your holdings if they can be wide-ranging.

This seems a perfectly good splinter. Without special bids you may not be able to distinguish whether singleton or void, but it may be the best description you have available.

Are you playing a GF 4 card support 1S 2NT sequence? That might be an alternative start, followed by a cue bid, and certainly a better start than a splinter when the hand has more hcp.

To answer your question, a splinter is normally weaker than a 2/1 in hcp. But when you have both good hcp, a decent 5 card side suit, 4 card major support, AND a shortage, it can be difficult to both agree spades and show the shortage when you start with a 2/1, so here again it may be better to start with 2NT. If you have a way for responder to show a shortage after a 2/1 start, when opener does not have one, then a 2NT response is stronger than a splinter, in my view. Without such a mechanism, you may choose to overlap the strengths.

[WesleyC]

I think your partner's mentor suggested that auction while looking very closely at the hand record - 20 HCP slams are better left for bridge books and columns!

South's choice to splinter is fine (if anything on the aggressive side) and after 4H, (which I play as a general slam try), I would sign off in 4S and play there.

[mike777]

1) low hcp slams are tough to bid.
2) assuming pard can show a void in d then you can get to 6.
3) north hand now is a 5 loser hand across from a splinter void showing a 7 loser hand. 24-5-7=12 tricks in losing trick count LTC.( actually that north hand is closer to an ADJusted 4 loser hand now, south 6.5 loser)
4) north can find Qs.
5) border line slam but you can get there.

[rhm]

kiwinacol, on 2015-April-20, 05:42, said:

I was reluctant to bid 2H GF over 1S as I felt I didn't have enough HCP, and partner may have wasted values in D.

I can understand that, except that you choose not only to force to game but to invite slam instead with a splinter.
HCP are a poor guide once you have a great fit in a major. Nevertheless your slam invite with one king is aggressive.
As the bidding went I would certainly have bid 6♠ with your partner's hand, once you bid 5♦.
What else did he want to hear playing with a 30 HCP deck?
You overbid and your partner severely underbid, once he heard your void in diamonds. (As North I would now be worried about missing 7♠)

Rainer Herrmann

[aguahombre]

If your partnership explores for slam in any reasonable way using 2/1, you will get an automatic club lead, after which it will not make six. It will make five or make seven, depending on the raw luck of catching a singleton king of trump.

Aside from that, there are other points to ponder.

1) A direct splinter response is not, in itself, a "slam try". It is a limited bid allegedly describing responder's hand --- in case Opener wants to make a slam try based on that information.
2) Whether you choose to splinter with voids or with singleton bullets is mildly interesting in this case because (see 3, below):
3) The big feature of this responding hand is the side trick source represented in the Heart suit. Showing that feature via a 2H response should take priority over the splinter response.
4) After bidding 2H, you still could show the splinter without showing any additional HCP.

1S-2H
2S-4D. Now you have done more than your "all" as Responder. If Opener drives to the bad slam from there, it isn't because you have underbid.

[kiwinacol]

Thanks for all the responses.

With the replies and research I appreciate my 4D splinter was about a king short of normal values.

My texts suggest 2/1 also shows about an opener, 12+.

Aguahombre, 1S 2H, 2S 4D identifies the suit but if my splinter was aggressive, wouldn't the 2/1, 2H be even more so? To me as a learner the slower sequence 'feels' stronger ... that's not very scientific, but I'm still sorting out the ceiling and floors for bids.

[aguahombre]

If your hand is worth game opposite a 1S opener, you can use 2/1 g.f.

High Card points plus support points in other forms make the given hand a game force in support of Spades.

One way of counting to 13 here, might be 8 HCP plus five for the void with 4 Trumps = 13. Another way of counting might involve visualization of trick potential -- which seems to bring this responding hand clearly into the realm of game-force opposite an opening 1S bid.

[fromageGB]

kiwinacol, on 2015-April-22, 03:36, said:

...

> With the replies and research I appreciate my 4D splinter was about a king short of normal values.
Yes it is, but you can argue that the additional playing strength given by the heart suit compensates.

> My texts suggest 2/1 also shows about an opener, 12+.
It is easier to handle if you keep to an agreed (pure hcp) figure (12 or 13), as partner may be relying on it later in his bidding. Game support bids without this strength should be handled outside a 2/1. How could you describe this hand if it started 1S 2H, 2NT/3D? Partner will never know your shortage or your weakness.

With a support hand worth game you should start with a splinter, an agreed shift mechanism (Bergen is an example), or 2NT. This hand qualifies as a splinter. Your partnership may not yet have considered support bids, but it is difficult to show support types without that discussion/study.

[mike777]

I think slam makes if h are 3-3 or 4-2 with KS in long h hand or stiff Ks. or non club lead.

the hand is strong enough for a splinter that is based on dist and loser count LTC rather than hcp.
prefer my 2/1 gf bids to be based on power rather than distribution hands with few hcp but many differ on that.

I generalize but splinters tend to show more dist and fewer hcp, 2/1 gf tend to show more hcp and less dist, both are gf.

[benlessard]

The problem with 4D is that it hide your source of tricks and consumed a lot of bidding space. When you have 2 option and you feel one is slightly better than the other but consumed a lot more space go with the more economical even if its imperfect. Playing standard methods I think 2H is clearcut.

Also this is a very good slam BTW even after a club lead its over 70% and im also far from convinced that the club lead is automatic after the splinter (but probably automatic after a 2H bid). So this is a slam you really want to be in.

I think north hand is powerful and can probably RKC over 4D unless you play very agressive splinters . For slam aces go up in values so any with 3 aces is not minimum. This hand is not minimum got nothing wasted in D and got a 6th spades. 3 plusses is good enough to RKC. I dont blame 4H last train or cue that much however.

[mike777]

I agree that splinter consumes a lot of space, that is fair critical.
if we show void...somehow or someway.. then pard knows we got tricks....7 loser hand.
this time 6.5 loser


I totally agree pard does not know we have these hearts but he knows we got something.....with void in d



splinter as limited very limited bid is fine.

dist but often with fewer hcp than 2/1


4=5=0=4 shape typical very typical


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as for last train....too complex...but many on forums love it