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4S versus 4H Competitive judgement

#1 User is offline   lmilne 

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Posted 2015-June-10, 03:18



What would you do:

a) with everyone vulnerable?

b) with just your side vulnerable?

And why?
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#2 User is offline   cherdano 

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Posted 2015-June-10, 06:14

4S. Can be spectacularly wrong, but will work well too often IMO.
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#3 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2015-June-10, 06:44

I'd Pass.

I got my @$ handed to me so many times when I take action at high level with 3 small trumps and a weak hand. Posted Image So I gave running against the wind.
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#4 User is offline   wank 

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Posted 2015-June-10, 07:18

bidding here has always worked out badly for me too.
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#5 User is offline   alok c 

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Posted 2015-June-10, 07:44

Pass.
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#6 User is offline   benlessard 

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Posted 2015-June-10, 08:15

VS an east that can bid 4H and X me in 4S i would pass. VS Some east that always have 5 trumps for 4H I might bid 4S. VS random players I would pass in a very weak field (4H is not a preempt for them) bid 4S in a weakish field and pass in a medium or better field (too likely its a trap or they fight correctly over my 4S).
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#7 User is online   mikeh 

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Posted 2015-June-10, 08:24

Pass.

Wrong trumps for a save, and no reason to think we can make anything higher than, maybe, the 2-level.

If you always bid on these hands, the opponents will own you for life.
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#8 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2015-June-10, 08:38

4♠. Not convinced about it but I think there is a good chance that it makes, that it is a good sac, or that opps make the wrong decision over it.
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#9 User is offline   ahydra 

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Posted 2015-June-10, 10:47

I'll pass - only 3 trumps and our unsupported Ks are not well placed. Partner should protect if he has extras.

ahydra
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#10 User is offline   WesleyC 

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Posted 2015-June-10, 11:12

I'd lean towards pass, but I think its a pretty close decision.

I agree with benlessard that theres definitely some psychology involved and against some opponents I might bid 4H.
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#11 User is offline   wank 

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Posted 2015-June-10, 13:14

View Postahydra, on 2015-June-10, 10:47, said:

I'll pass - only 3 trumps and our unsupported Ks are not well placed. Partner should protect if he has extras and the right shape.

ahydra


FYP. no reason to think partner has a sensible shape to double given we've got a singleton heart.
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#12 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2015-June-11, 00:03

Pass. Weak trump and outside defense dissuade me from action.

There's two bad scenarios that can come from bidding: a) phantom, b) getting killed when they were making versus two positives: a) making game or b) profitable sac. The former seem more likely than the latter however, due to the texture of this hand.

Auctions like this are also a reason I'm starting to lean toward IJO's versus precision pairs that love (1M) - (bla) - 4M.
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#13 User is offline   lycier 

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Posted 2015-June-11, 02:18

Pass.
However the following auction is north make a double to show some extra values,then I will bid 4♠.
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#14 User is offline   PhilKing 

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Posted 2015-June-11, 04:52

I'd pass at any vulnerability. Why?

Only 3 bad trumps. Unless we have a big diamond fit, a trump could lead to as much as 5 down.

Reasonable defence. If parner is 5224 or similar with some stay honours in the minors, they could easily be going down.

But there's no great need to overthink this - as a rule of thumb, we can allow us to be pushed one level higher in competition, and since we only had an average raise to Two Spades, bidding Four in this spot is just wild.
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#15 User is offline   ralstar 

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Posted 2015-June-11, 05:55

A) not vulnerable 4♠ is absolutely correct bid. Reasoning: opener has 5+ ♥opponent responded with 4+ ♥ partner has 4+ ♠and you have 3[spades. With opponents with so many hearts they are pretty much guaranteed to make 4♥. Conversely you have chance if partner has 6+ [spades] at making 4♠. Additionally, most likely to be set -2 for -100, while not allowing opponents 4♥for 400 points.

B) both vulnerable. 4♠would be a total sacrifice as only a slight chance of making. Also, you can hope opponents try for small slam and set, but still just gambling. With both vulnerable, it comes down to how aggressive you want to play.

Me personally, 4♠every time and forget the consequences.
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#16 User is offline   cherdano 

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Posted 2015-June-11, 06:47

View Postcherdano, on 2015-June-10, 06:14, said:

4S. Can be spectacularly wrong, but will work well too often IMO.

Yeah, I was wrong about this one. It's 800 or 1100 just too often. Kxxxxx is not a great feature on offense with a weak hand!
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#17 User is offline   jogs 

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Posted 2015-June-11, 07:25

Would only consider 4♠ at favorable vulnerability.
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#18 User is offline   case_no_6 

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Posted 2015-June-11, 12:37

Pass.
1. I have some defense, so we may beat this.
2. Though I do have spade support, it is weak and only 3 cards long.
3. Partner does not have to have a good hand to overcall spades at the 1 level. Even if partner does have good values, we might not be able to make 4S while they are failing at 4H.
4. Partner is not prohibited from bidding again when his/her hand is suitable.
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#19 User is offline   BruceZhu 

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Posted 2015-June-11, 16:05

I'd give 4♠ a good bet that it would make. RHO's pre-empt shows that he is weak, and partner rates to have some of the missing points. However, don't upgrade your hand because of the heart singleton; partner is also likely to hold less than 2 hearts. The long diamonds might be an asset. In unfavorable vulnerability, I might bid or pass. P.S. I am an aggressive bidder so I might be wrong.
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#20 User is offline   sstansmall 

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Posted 2015-June-11, 22:54

Bid 4s all the time, Pard has around 10-14 pts something like KJT9x,xx,Axx,Qxx at least. but he could have AQJxxx xx, Qx Axx
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