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Has U.S. Democracy Been Trumped? Bernie Sanders wants to know who owns America?

#9241 User is offline   y66 

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Posted 2018-February-09, 06:43

From Has Anyone Seen the President? by Michael Lewis:

Quote

Bannon thinks the U.S. is in decline and the people perched on top don’t particularly care. “The elites of both parties are comfortable with America being in decline,” he says. “They manage on the way down, and they make even more wealth.” He sees his job as finding ways to organize the masses against the elites. Trump was never an end in himself but the means to it -- and Bannon clearly finds some of what Trump has done since taking office, like the tax cuts, as, at best, beside the point. He also finds distasteful some of the people Trump brought into his inner circle -- some of the generals who have, in Bannon’s view, wasted trillions of dollars and American lives; plus the financiers. Bannon thinks Goldman Sachs’s shareholders should have been wiped out in 2008, and that its president, Gary Cohn, should have lost his job. Instead Goldman Sachs Group Inc. has survived, and Cohn, who paid himself hundreds of millions of dollars, now gets to swan around as Trump’s economic adviser.

Bannon has a favorite line: If I had to choose who will run the country, 100 Goldman Sachs partners or the first 100 people who walk into a Trump rally, I’d choose the people at the Trump rally. I have my own version of this line: If I had to choose a president, Donald Trump or anyone else I’ve ever known, I’d choose anyone else I’ve ever known. Among the revelations of Wolff’s book was just how many of the people in and around Trump’s White House feel more or less as I do. “Insulting Donald Trump’s intelligence was both the thing you could not do and the thing that everybody was guilty of,” Wolff writes. “Everyone, in his or her own way, struggled to express the baldly obvious fact that the president did not know enough, did not know what he didn’t know, and did not particularly care.” Secretary of State Rex Tillerson called Trump “a ***** moron.” Treasury Secretary Mnuchin and ex-Chief of Staff Reince Priebus preferred to describe Trump as “an idiot.” National Security Adviser H.R. McMaster called him a “dope.” Cohn called Trump “dumb as *****.”

Bannon had done something even less forgivable, in Trump World, than question Trump’s intelligence. He’d allowed himself to be given credit for the one thing that Trump could point to as a sign of his genius: winning the election. Time magazine ran a cover with Bannon’s face on it with the headline “The Great Manipulator.” It sits in a frame on his floor right now.

But the more we learn about Trump, the more stupendous Bannon’s achievement appears. It’s as if he took the Cleveland Browns to the Super Bowl and then, in the off-season, turned the football players into Olympic athletes, and won gold in curling.

“I want you to do an exercise with me,” I say, inching close to the reason I’ve come.

He eyes me, but not with hostility.

“If you can get Trump elected president, you can get anyone elected president. And so I want you to tell me the steps I’d need to take to get elected. What do we need to do?”

He shakes his head quickly. The question doesn’t offend him. He just thinks I’m missing the point. “What was needed was a blunt force instrument, and Trump was a blunt force instrument,” he says. Trump may be a barbarian. He may be in many senses stupid. But in Bannon’s view, Trump has several truly peculiar strengths. The first is his stamina. “I give a talk to a room with 50 people and I’m drained afterward,” Bannon says. “This guy got up five and six times a day in front of 10,000 people, day in and day out. He’s 70! Hillary Clinton couldn’t do that. She could do one.” The public events were not trivial occasions, in Bannon’s view. They whipped up the emotion that got Trump elected: anger. “We got elected on Drain the Swamp, Lock Her Up, Build a Wall,” he says. “This was pure anger. Anger and fear is what gets people to the polls.”

The ability to tap anger in others was another of Trump’s gifts, and made him, uniquely in the field of Republican candidates, suited to what Bannon saw as the task at hand: Trump was himself angry. The deepest parts of him are angry and dark, Bannon told Wolff. Exactly what Trump has to be angry about was unclear. He’s had all of life’s advantages. Yet he acts like a man who has been cheated once too often, and is justifiably outraged. What Bannon loved was the way Trump sounded when he was angry. He’d gone to the best schools, but he had somehow emerged from them with the grammar and diction of an uneducated person. “The vernacular,” Bannon called Trump’s odd way of putting things. Other angry people, some of whom actually had been cheated by life, thrilled to its sound.

Quote

Steve Bannon reminded me of someone, but it’s not until I’m back in my hotel room that I realize who. He was a character from “The Big Short.” He saw the world differently from virtually everyone in his profession, and it led a lot of people to think that he was insane. But he was right and they were wrong, and the rest of the world has yet to come to terms with why.

Steve Bannon reminds Lewis of Michael Burry, the guy who made north of $2.5 billion by betting against mortgage-backed securities in 2008? Ha! Bannon is a smart guy, a non-conformist and masterful when it comes to tapping into and ramping up hate but he has no idea what to do with it, he has let it infect his own judgment and the monster he helped put in the White House is hurting the people he says he wants to help most whereas Burry comes across as Spock-like emotion-wise in The Big Short and as someone who knew exactly what he wanted to accomplish on behalf of his constituents -- his investors -- and did.
If you lose all hope, you can always find it again -- Richard Ford in The Sportswriter
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#9242 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2018-February-09, 09:00

Back when Comey was fired,

Quote

then-Deputy Press Secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders claimed that the president had “lost confidence in Director Comey” and that “the rank and file of the FBI had lost confidence in their director.” She stated that the president had “had countless conversations with members from within the FBI” in the course of making his decision to fire Comey. The following day, Sanders stated that she personally had “heard from countless members of the FBI that are grateful and thankful for the president’s decision” and that the president believed “Director Comey was not up to the task...that he wasn’t the right person in the job. [Trump] wanted somebody that could bring credibility back to the FBI.”


Lawfare using the Freedom of Information Act to get access to the FBI emails that circulated after Comey was fired...

Turned out that this was - yet another - example where Saunders and Trump directly lied to the public.

https://www.lawfareb...ing-james-comey
Alderaan delenda est
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#9243 User is offline   kenberg 

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Posted 2018-February-09, 09:26

 y66, on 2018-February-09, 06:43, said:

From Has Anyone Seen the President? by Michael Lewis:



An interesting piece. I recommend it. Lewis and Bannon watching the State of the Union speech is fascinating.

I think my favorite part of the section you quote is

Quote

What Bannon loved was the way Trump sounded when he was angry. He’d gone to the best schools, but he had somehow emerged from them with the grammar and diction of an uneducated person. “The vernacular,” Bannon called Trump’s odd way of putting things. Other angry people, some of whom actually had been cheated by life, thrilled to its sound.


When we think of people disguising their origins maybe Holly Golightly from Breakfast at Tiffany's comes to mind. Or Felony Melanie from Sweet Home Alabama. But Trump pulls it off in reverse. It has never seemed authentic to me, but then I don't feel cheated. I have always thought that the things that have gone wrong in my life are, as Jimmy Buffet says, my own damn fault. And there hasn't been all that much to complain about.

Harry Truman sounded like someone who grew up with not much, and I understand the connection he had. Kennedy sounded like he came from wealth, and from Boston, but he didn't pretend otherwise and he could connect. With Trump I just don't get it. To just mention one current topic, Truman and Kennedy as well as the first Bush and others, served in the military. I can't recall that any of them had a great fondness for rolling some tanks down Pennsylvania Avenue so we can all salute. Well yes, after VE Day and VJ Day, but that's different, a truly awful conflict had come to a close. I really don't get Trump's appeal.
Ken
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#9244 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2018-February-09, 09:36

GAO: The tax cut will cost us $1.5 Trillion.
McFredo: I've got an idea. Let's put on a parade!
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
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#9245 User is offline   barmar 

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Posted 2018-February-09, 10:08

 ldrews, on 2018-February-08, 16:59, said:

Do you mean his character or his personality? Based on his presidential actions so far his character seems pretty good. His personality, on the other hand, is a bit abrasive to the establishment and the media. I understand that on a person to person basis he is somewhat charming. His family and ex-wives speak highly of him for what that is worth. I wonder, would our family and ex-wives speak highly of us?

You really think someone who reneged on contracts in his businesses has "good character"? And what about his clear racism, that's character, not personality.

I saw an interview with Ivana a few months ago, I don't think she spoke so highly of him.

#9246 User is offline   jjbrr 

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Posted 2018-February-09, 10:09

 hrothgar, on 2018-February-09, 09:00, said:

Back when Comey was fired,



Lawfare using the Freedom of Information Act to get access to the FBI emails that circulated after Comey was fired...

Turned out that this was - yet another - example where Saunders and Trump directly lied to the public.

https://www.lawfareb...ing-james-comey


The key takeaway here is that they actually honored a FOIA request. Incredible.
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#9247 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2018-February-09, 10:49

And, it looks like Trump is going to need a new Chief of Staff...

https://www.axios.co...ampaign=organic

"Only the best people"
Alderaan delenda est
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#9248 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2018-February-09, 11:12

 hrothgar, on 2018-February-09, 10:49, said:

And, it looks like Trump is going to need a new Chief of Staff...

https://www.axios.co...ampaign=organic

"Only the best people"


General Petraeus, now Kelly: have we become so enamored of our military generals that we allow them good reputations, regardless?
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
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#9249 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2018-February-09, 11:34

 barmar, on 2018-February-09, 10:08, said:

You really think someone who reneged on contracts in his businesses has "good character"? And what about his clear racism, that's character, not personality.

I saw an interview with Ivana a few months ago, I don't think she spoke so highly of him.


Personality trait #1: paid a $25 million settlement for defrauding students. B-) :D :P
Personality trait #2: associate of and did business with organized crime figures (See Felix Sater, among others). B-) :D :P
Personality trait #3: owned a casino that had to pay fines for money laundering. B-) :D :P

Quote

As one digs deeper into the national character of the Americans, one sees that they have sought the value of everything in this world only in the answer to this single question: how much money will it bring in? - Alexis de Tocqueville

"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
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#9250 User is offline   hrothgar 

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Posted 2018-February-09, 11:41

When Trump talks about how much he would like to f*ck his own daughter, is that "character" or "personality"?
Alderaan delenda est
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#9251 User is offline   jjbrr 

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Posted 2018-February-09, 12:45

What does that have to do with the number of jobs trump has promised to create?
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#9252 User is offline   RedSpawn 

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Posted 2018-February-09, 15:28

 kenberg, on 2018-February-08, 16:37, said:

When the stock market is surging nobody wants to listen to a wet blanket.

My day to day life does not depend on the djia. I usually don't know its level within 1000 points, or whether it has gone up or down in the previous week. Some swings get my attention.

I would like to see good decisions fostering long term economic health.

Let's face facts. The guy in the WH made a lot of money screwing suckers. Get in, say anything, make a buck, get out. He has now taken his act to the presidency. Long term, this is not good.

I get along with conservatives. I am more conservative than many who post here. But I don't like having a scam artist as president. Basically, that's the whole story with me.

Economists worry, but the guy in the street thinks "The market is going up, who cares what the eggheads say?". Now might be a time to think a bit about that.

Nobody has to totally surrender all of their social views, I am simply suggesting they give some thought to the character of the person who has been elected.

Character is irrelevant when F.E.A.R. and values/policy issues are allegedly more important.

Source: https://www.vox.com/...rvative-clinton
https://www.theatlan...-heaven/521409/
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#9253 User is online   PassedOut 

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Posted 2018-February-09, 16:59

As usual since 1980, when republicans get control of the US government, deficit spending skyrockets. That's because the republican base is basically a bunch of red-state freeloaders, parasites on the more productive blue states.

Yes, the democrats are spenders too, but they aren't the ones pushing for those completely irresponsible tax cuts. The freeloader approach is to grab the benefits of government spending now, while jamming the bill for that spending down the throats of our children and grandchildren.

Of course when the next democrat assumes the presidency, the republican rhetoric will reverse itself again, and the associated finger-pointing will resume. I regret my past habit of voting in republican primaries. The national republicans today lack character, intelligence, and personal responsibility. The whole bunch makes me sick.
The growth of wisdom may be gauged exactly by the diminution of ill temper. — Friedrich Nietzsche
The infliction of cruelty with a good conscience is a delight to moralists — that is why they invented hell. — Bertrand Russell
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#9254 User is offline   ldrews 

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Posted 2018-February-09, 17:23

 PassedOut, on 2018-February-09, 16:59, said:

As usual since 1980, when republicans get control of the US government, deficit spending skyrockets. That's because the republican base is basically a bunch of red-state freeloaders, parasites on the more productive blue states.

Yes, the democrats are spenders too, but they aren't the ones pushing for those completely irresponsible tax cuts. The freeloader approach is to grab the benefits of government spending now, while jamming the bill for that spending down the throats of our children and grandchildren.

Of course when the next democrat assumes the presidency, the republican rhetoric will reverse itself again, and the associated finger-pointing will resume. I regret my past habit of voting in republican primaries. The national republicans today lack character, intelligence, and personal responsibility. The whole bunch makes me sick.


Budget Deficits By President:
https://www.thoughtc...esident-3368289
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#9255 User is offline   Al_U_Card 

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Posted 2018-February-09, 17:54

 ldrews, on 2018-February-09, 17:23, said:

Budget Deficits By President:
https://www.thoughtc...esident-3368289

Seems to me that the economy does (pretty much what it will) about the opposite of the "classical" interpretation of Dems= tax and spend and Reps = austerity and tax cuts IIRC.
The 2009 bank heist ranks with The great crash of '29 and JPMorgan's overthrow of US finances at the turn of the previous century. Symptoms of a plutocratic malaise that afflicts the country like waves of the bubonic plague used to ravage the old world.
Most of the hoi polloi don't even know (or care?) how the financial system works. Never in their favor or for their well-being.
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#9256 User is online   PassedOut 

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Posted 2018-February-09, 18:46

The rational way to look at the US national debt is as a percentage of the GDP. After WWII, the debt had risen to over 117% of GDP. After that, the debt as a percentage of GDP dropped steadily until Reagan took office.

Here is the reference from which I've extracted the following chart: History of the United States public debt

1941–1945	Roosevelt	    +67.1
1945–1949	Roosevelt, Truman   -24.4
1949–1953	Truman	            -21.7
1953–1957	Eisenhower          -11.0
1957–1961	Eisenhower	     -5.2
1961–1965	Kennedy, Johnson     -8.3
1965–1969	Johnson	             -8.3
1969–1973	Nixon	             -3.0
1973–1977	Nixon, Ford	     +0.2
1977–1981	Carter	             -3.3
1981–1985	Reagan	            +11.3
1985–1989	Reagan	             +9.3
1989–1993	Bush Sr.            +13.0
1993–1997	Clinton	             -0.7
1997–2001	Clinton	 	     -9.0
2001–2005	Bush	 	     +7.1
2005–2009	Bush	 	    +20.7
2009–2013	Obama	 	    +18.5


I don't yet have the number for Obama's last term, but the increase will be significantly lower than for his first term -- heading in the right direction, albeit too slowly.

Now the numbers will start in the wrong direction once again, and dramatically so. The government passed an irresponsible tax cut knowing full well that they were going to increase spending as the next step. These are the actions taken by irresponsible people to buy votes from their irresponsible minions.
The growth of wisdom may be gauged exactly by the diminution of ill temper. — Friedrich Nietzsche
The infliction of cruelty with a good conscience is a delight to moralists — that is why they invented hell. — Bertrand Russell
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#9257 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2018-February-09, 19:09

I have not been a fan of the Democratic party since Clinton - mostly because of the move away from protections of workers - but the Republican party I always found to be worse. My history with the Democratic party goes back to Kennedy and LBJ. LBJ would be my choice today even though I hated him at the time for escalating the Vietnam war.

Anyone from the South who had the courage and integrity to ramrod through the Civil Rights Act was the real deal in my estimation.

PS: McFredo blocked the release of the Democratic memo - what a shock. <_<
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
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#9258 User is offline   ldrews 

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Posted 2018-February-09, 21:06

 Winstonm, on 2018-February-09, 19:09, said:

I have not been a fan of the Democratic party since Clinton - mostly because of the move away from protections of workers - but the Republican party I always found to be worse. My history with the Democratic party goes back to Kennedy and LBJ. LBJ would be my choice today even though I hated him at the time for escalating the Vietnam war.

Anyone from the South who had the courage and integrity to ramrod through the Civil Rights Act was the real deal in my estimation.

PS: McFredo blocked the release of the Democratic memo - what a shock. <_<


It is shocking to have a President that apparently follows the Rule of Law and handles sensitive national security info appropriately.

My understanding is that Trump sent the memo back to Congress for them to remove the sensitive national security info that had been put in and then resubmit it. Trump has ordered the DOJ/FBI/NSA to help them do so.

Do you think this was the wrong thing to do?
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#9259 User is offline   kenberg 

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Posted 2018-February-09, 21:45

 ldrews, on 2018-February-09, 21:06, said:

It is shocking to have a President that apparently follows the Rule of Law and handles sensitive national security info appropriately.

My understanding is that Trump sent the memo back to Congress for them to remove the sensitive national security info that had been put in and then resubmit it. Trump has ordered the DOJ/FBI/NSA to help them do so.

Do you think this was the wrong thing to do?


During the super bowl there were several calls on the field which were reviewed for accuracy. This is proper. Having the review done by the coach of the Patriots or by the coach of the Eagles would have been improper.

Most everyone could see early on that this dueling memo idea was nuts from the start. Having a dueling memo battle where Trump gets to decide which memo meets proper standards and which doesn't? This is not defensible. It simply isn't.

I have enjoyed many conversations over the years on BBO but some of the posts over the last few months I regard as beyond absurd. This isn't fum anymore.
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#9260 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2018-February-09, 22:38

Keep in mind that every idiocy of Devin Nunes is committed only with the full blessing of Paul Ryan.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."
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