[Cyberyeti]

zillahandp, on 2016-March-08, 07:32, said:

So a passed opp competes with a take out dble showing other two suits.yes?
It all depends on the hand so 2d is obvious, and maybe best for p to declare 3nt
With no agreement xx suggests penalty hunting, nts show normal strength eg 15/16, 17/18 etc. New suit would be forcing as in normal sequence for one round or GF depending on the bid. Seems simple unless there is sme complicated understanding. S in this case 2d forcing for one round. Then over a 2h rebid, 3nt over 3c same, over 2s 3nt. Seems simple acol copes.
More intersting over a 4c or 4d response. Slam? Worth considering.!

Don't get this, you have a perfect hand for penalty hunting, why doesn't partner have some 4522 hand where you're taking a vast number on a misfit ?

[Caitlynne]

I am not sure your question can be properly answered because of the (lack of) details provided about your system.

That 1C promises at least a 4 card suit seems surprising. Yes, I understand you play 4 card majors, but what is one to open with something like Jxxx, KQx, Axx, AQx? Surely opening 1S is a problem, especially if partner responds 1NT on 6 to 10 HCP. You really can't risk passing with 16 HCP, so I think most would plan the rebid problem by opening 1C, planning to rebid 1NT to show a balanced hand with 15 to 17 HCP. I have trouble believing that Acol does not allow opening 1C or 1D on a 3 card suit, at least as a fall back "punt" with hands that present rebid problems if opened with a 4 card major.

The above discussion gives a clue about what the 1S rebid should mean - natural with length in spades AND clubs.

And yes, 2D should be a reverse, even if you occasionally have to hold your nose to rebid a 5 card club suit. 1H does not promise much, so you can't force to the 3 level on a misfit with a hand like xxx, x, Axxx, AKJxx. You just bite the bullet and rebid 2C, reserving Rdbl and 1NT to show good balanced hands per your system stipulation. I would prefer to play Rdbl to show 15 to 17 HCP and 1NT to show 18 to 19 HCP in this style, but it is playable to play these two bids with the reversed meanings.

[Cyberyeti]

Caitlynne, on 2016-March-08, 08:21, said:

I am not sure your question can be properly answered because of the (lack of) details provided about your system.

That 1C promises at least a 4 card suit seems surprising. Yes, I understand you play 4 card majors, but what is one to open with something like Jxxx, KQx, Axx, AQx? Surely opening 1S is a problem, especially if partner responds 1NT on 6 to 10 HCP. You really can't risk passing with 16 HCP, so I think most would plan the rebid problem by opening 1C, planning to rebid 1NT to show a balanced hand with 15 to 17 HCP. I have trouble believing that Acol does not allow opening 1C or 1D on a 3 card suit, at least as a fall back "punt" with hands that present rebid problems if opened with a 4 card major.

The above discussion gives a clue about what the 1S rebid should mean - natural with length in spades AND clubs.

And yes, 2D should be a reverse, even if you occasionally have to hold your nose to rebid a 5 card club suit. 1H does not promise much, so you can't force to the 3 level on a misfit with a hand like xxx, x, Axxx, AKJxx. You just bite the bullet and rebid 2C, reserving Rdbl and 1NT to show good balanced hands per your system stipulation. I would prefer to play Rdbl to show 15 to 17 HCP and 1NT to show 18 to 19 HCP in this style, but it is playable to play these two bids with the reversed meanings.

Yes if 1♠ is natural, it would show 5♣/4♠.

In theory Acol opens 1♠ on the 4333 and passes 1N with 15-16 as the 2/1 wouldn't show the earth, we don't ever respond 1N on 10 and 2/1 on 9 with a 5 card suit. In practice, we occasionally open 1♣ if the spades are really bad.

You can pass the X on a lot of minimum hands so can avoid some horrible 2♣ rebids.

We're comfortable with the 15-bad 19 1N rebid we play unopposed and I'm sure that is how 1N would have been interpreted, so no need to split the range.

[zillahandp]

Now seeing the full hnand seems I am right! We get to 6c with sme ease over 2s 2nt then three clubs (slow arrival ) ote 3nt is wrong, slam is now on via cue bids .

[Cyberyeti]

zillahandp, on 2016-March-09, 04:50, said:

Now seeing the full hnand seems I am right! We get to 6c with sme ease over 2s 2nt then three clubs (slow arrival ) ote 3nt is wrong, slam is now on via cue bids .

6♣ is the wrong slam of course, you want to be in notrumps as you can't draw trumps then cash the hearts if clubs aren't 3-2, so need the diamond finesse.

[Fluffy]

I would read everything is the same as without the double except that with balanced hands you pass, so 1♠ should be unbalanced.

1NT undiscussed I would take as great stoppers, but I think best is to play it as 18-19, or support double limited, or weak minors