[Cyberyeti]

 bigbenvic, on 2016-March-16, 01:13, said:

Except that OP states it is forcing and better than most people play it!

I have a monster, partner has a GF opposite my hand, I have no mechanism to find out about the clubs, which is a problem so I think I just want to bid 6 and apologise if it's off. Basically my KQ in trumps has to make up 1 loser, the void spade probably solves the 4th, 5th 6th etc round of spades. If he has the reds then my KH is worth so much more but I've no way to tell.

4NT undiscussed is probably Blackwood in Diamonds, with the possibility of bidding 6H (correctible to 6S later) 5C I'd take as a slam try in one of the majors, prepared to play 5 in the "wrong" one. What that would mean for a jump to 5H or 5S over 4D I have no idea.

I would have assumed at the table 5♥ is a NF slam try in opener's major and 5♠ says I want to play 5♠ if opener has them, but a slam if he has hearts.

Partner's hand was KQJ9xx, x, AJxxx, A and it's the only time I ever ruffed 5 rounds of a suit to establish the 6th one for 6♦=.

[MinorKid]

 bigbenvic, on 2016-March-16, 01:13, said:

Except that OP states it is forcing and better than most people play it!

I have a monster, partner has a GF opposite my hand, I have no mechanism to find out about the clubs, which is a problem so I think I just want to bid 6 and apologise if it's off. Basically my KQ in trumps has to make up 1 loser, the void spade probably solves the 4th, 5th 6th etc round of spades. If he has the reds then my KH is worth so much more but I've no way to tell.

4NT undiscussed is probably Blackwood in Diamonds, with the possibility of bidding 6H (correctible to 6S later) 5C I'd take as a slam try in one of the majors, prepared to play 5 in the "wrong" one. What that would mean for a jump to 5H or 5S over 4D I have no idea.

IMO the most people playing leaping michaels will set its maximum value and otherwise they'd start with a double. Afterall Michaels or Leaping Michaels is some sort of competitive in nature and perhaps pushed partnership too high if the other one has guessed a slam.

On the other way round, lets assume you play leaping michaels in an unlimited manner and one of yours tries a slam, one may use conventions or to make a final guess, provided that those bid are made based on some agreed certified minimum value. It would mean to use a complicated evaluation system based on HCP, Shape, Distribution and probability.

While 4N as blackwood w new partnership is easy to use, the 4N / cue-bid convention has a better usage - to discover a double fit.
Slamwisely, you can see if both suits are ready to run (A single 12-card fit is a rare case, most of the time would be two 8-card fit).
Apart for that, you will then be better placed when the partner of the Preempt opener happens to compete.

Michaels cue bids is by less saying "Hey pard, I have two nice suits, if you make them running we have a good slam" by much more like "Hey pard, I have two suits, if it fits well to yours let take a contract for us!".

[Fluffy]

I think the best use for 4NT is general slam try on this situations, because LM is wide range. It won't be very accurate since overcaller doesn't know the strain yet, however on this situation he can bid 5♣ to ask.

[FrancesHinden]

 Zelandakh, on 2016-March-14, 05:36, said:

I reckon you should consider playing 4♣ as diamonds + a major and 4♦ for the majors.

 rhm, on 2016-March-14, 06:06, said:

I know you have an infinite memory capacity for slight improvements which will turn out to be crucial every second leap year at bestRainer Herrmann

You have already committed to playing two conventions: 4C as the majors and 4D as diamonds and a major.
Why do you think it takes more memory to play instead 4D as the majors and 4C as diamonds and a major? They both require the same memory load. In fact, it is just as easy to remember "after a 3m opening bid, 4C shows the other minor and a major, 4D shows both majors" as it is to remember "after a 3m opening bid, a cue shows both majors and 4 of the other minor shows that suit plus a major". Possibly easier, as it takes fewer words.

p.s. Although I don't agree this is necessarily better. Just take this auction: after 4C partner can bid 4D to ask for the better major. After 4D it's less important to ask for the better suit, because one it at the 4-level and the other is at the 5-level

[FrancesHinden]

 Cyberyeti, on 2016-March-14, 02:56, said:

What do people think 4N and 5♣ would mean undiscussed ?

I think that I wouldn't agree to play (N)LM without discussing what partner's bids mean over it.

I play 4H is pass or correct
4S is to play in 4S
4NT is a slam try in clubs
5C is a slam try in hearts or both majors (over this 5D shows diamonds + spades NF)

I don't think this is optimal, to be honest, but it has the benefit of consistency with other auctions (the lower of 4NT and cue bid is a flag for the partner's lower suit)

[Cyberyeti]

 FrancesHinden, on 2016-March-20, 05:56, said:

I think that I wouldn't agree to play (N)LM without discussing what partner's bids mean over it.

I play 4H is pass or correct
4S is to play in 4S
4NT is a slam try in clubs
5C is a slam try in hearts or both majors (over this 5D shows diamonds + spades NF)

I don't think this is optimal, to be honest, but it has the benefit of consistency with other auctions (the lower of 4NT and cue bid is a flag for the partner's lower suit)

So what do you do with a hand that wants to play in 4♠ opposite ♠/♦ and 5♦ opposite ♥/♦ say 3136/3235/4126 ?