[straube]

I'm wondering if we could offload some of the 2D opening to the 2N opening. I'd tried something like this before (along with placing 4S/6D hands in the 1D opening) before giving up on it.

Currently
2D-10-15, 6+D, side 4-cd suit possible
2N-5-10, 5/5 minors

Thinking
2D-10-15, 6+D, side 4-cd suit possible except spades
2N-10-15, 6+D/4S

So for the 2N opening
.....3C-asks strength, else shape
..........3D-weak
...............3H-relays
...............3S-to play
..........3H-high short or 4171
..........etc-low short
.....3D-to play
.....3H-to play
.....3S-to play

For the 2D opening
.....2H-GF relay or GI 4+ hearts
..........2S-4 clubs or balanced
...............3C or 3D-GI hearts, to play
..........2N-6D higher short or balanced and lower fragment
..........3C-weak, 4H
..........etc-max, 4H
.....2S-GI+ 5+ spades

Needs some help. Adam, if you're reading, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't want to give up your 2N opening, but if you had it for some diamond hand, how would you take advantage of it?

[straube]

2D
.....2H-GF relay or GI 4+ hearts
..........2S-higher or lower short or bal with lower fragment (in effect promises at least two hearts)
...............2N-GF relay
..........2N-middle short or 3262 or 2272
...............3C-GF relay
..........3C-4C, min
...............3H-GF relay
..........3D-4C, max
...............3H-GF relay
..........3H-weak, 4 hearts
...............3S-GF relay
..........3S-strong, 4 hearts, high short
..........etc-
.....2S-GI+ 5+ spades

[Kungsgeten]

Could something crazy like this work?

2D = Weak major (multi/wagner)
2M = 3-4M, 6+D
2NT = 6+D, no four card major

Or perhaps even:

2C = One 6+ minor, no 4 card major
2D = Weak major (multi/wagner)
2M = 4M, 6+m

[straube]

Kungsgeten, on 2016-May-23, 08:57, said:

Could something crazy like this work?

2D = Weak major (multi/wagner)
2M = 3-4M, 6+D
2NT = 6+D, no four card major

Or perhaps even:

2C = One 6+ minor, no 4 card major
2D = Weak major (multi/wagner)
2M = 4M, 6+m

We need 2C for clubs, but the first looks doable. I've never played Multi before and understand that opening in the major puts more pressure on the opponents. I'd really like to find a relay solution.

Regarding my last structure, I've noticed that 2D-2H, 2S-3C can show a fifth heart (we know by then that opener has 2 or 3 hearts) so we can find our 5/3 heart fits.

[straube]

straube, on 2016-May-20, 00:47, said:

2D
.....2H-GF relay or GI 4+ hearts
..........2S-higher or lower short OR bal with lower fragment (in effect promises at least two hearts)
...............2N-GF relay
..........2N-middle short or 3262 or 2272
...............3C-GF relay
..........3C-4C, min
...............3H-GF relay
..........3D-4C, max
...............3H-GF relay
..........3H-weak, 4 hearts
...............3S-GF relay
..........3S-strong, 4 hearts, high short
..........etc-
.....2S-GI+ 5+ spades

After 2D-2H, 3C it's nice to have 3H as GF relay but sometimes responder will want to play 3H. Think I'll add 2D-3H as GI, not interested in a 3D contract


2D-
.....2H-GF relay or GI 4+ hearts
..........2S-non-heart shortness or bal with lower fragment (in effect promises at least two hearts)
...............2N-GF relay
...............3C-GI 5H
...............3D-GI 4H
...............3H-GI 6H (known 6/2+ fit)
..........2N-heart shortness or 3262 or 2272
...............3C-GF relay
...............3D-GI 4+H
..........3C-4C, min
...............3D-GI 4+H
...............3H-GF relay
..........3D-4C, max
...............3H-GF relay
..........3H-min, 4 hearts
...............3S-GF relay
..........3S-max, 4 hearts, high short
..........etc-
.....2S-GI 5+S, 0-2D
..........P-usually two spades with nothing better to offer
..........2N-min, 4H
..........3C-two spades, either min longer diamonds or planning to GF (we don't then lose a 6-2S fit)
...............3H-5H
..........3D-min, other
...............3H-5H
..........3H-max, 4H
..........3S-raise
..........3N-max, short spade
.....2N-forcing, inv with usually diamond tolerance
.....3C-invitational, nf
.....3D-preempt
.....3H-GI, not interested in a 3D contract
.....3S-FSJ

[awm]

Your relay resolution seems a little high on some of these hands (esp. the 6-4 ones). I'm also not a big believer in opening 2NT on hands in the 10-15 range, because it's too high to have a good constructive auction (there are lots of holes, like being unable to show an invite with long hearts, or being unable to look for a stopper in the fourth suit, or simply being cramped on relay auctions; it will also be relatively easy for opponents to penalize you when that's right). The 2NT "weak both minors" is not exactly a great call either BTW, but at least the comparison is against having to pass (which is also not great on such hands) rather than against a normal constructive opening.

I think Noble Shore plays some variant of this method, though I'm not sure of the details.